For context, Serial is an established and well known editor, who joined the project in 2013. He was heavily addicted from 2016 until 2020. His participation since then has been erratic, with three long (multi-month) gaps of virtual inactivity separating equally long spells of editing. In May 2023, we join him at what would seemingly be the tail end of a third burst of activity, although clearly this 12 day departure was not it.
Now buried in the archives, here is the AN/I report filed against Serial by Mzajac....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... aspersions
It seems pretty cut and dried. Serial had been quite the fool, on 6 May randomly dropping into a proposal filed at the Military History Project to rename an internal task force, to cast an aspersion at the proposer, Mzajac. Serial claimed that he thought he remembered them (Mzajac) as the guy he "grassed reported" to ArbCom for canvassing as Requested Move of Kiev/Kyiv on Twitter. He ended the message with a big smiley. Prick.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... task_force
Quite why he wasn't quickly blocked for a rather blatant violation of CIVIL/ASPERSIONS/ASSHOLE, given he is obviously well aware that shit like this is unacceptable and inexcusable, is beyond me. Other than the fact Wikipedia has a high tolerance of assholes.
Even worse, Mzajac had quite literally no idea what this was about, because he had never had any prior interaction with Serial dickwad, but he had been at the Kyiv/Kiev request. Compounding matters, the link provided by Serial is a huge debate, and Serial had merely linked to the top header (don't click it, I provide a more specific link below).
It's worth noting that Mzajac is seemingly quite the dick himself, but that is hardly surprising. Chuck a rock into the Wikipedia sewer and it will bounce off the napper of an asshole before it comes to rest. Maybe if they were tougher on assholes it would be different....?
At the time though Mzajac showed restraint, and simply asked underneath the weird post if Serial would "please show evidence that this is true, or strike.". He made this request just over an hour after Serial had said it, and he pinged Serial to alert him. Almost 24 hours later, perhaps unwisely, perhaps not, but with Serial having not edited Wikipedia in the mean time, Mzajac left him a message on his talk page......
Serial didn't reappear on Wikipedia until about 90 minutes after Serial's request, by which time it's been a clear 24 hours since his bizarre attack. Serial made three edits over 40 minutes, completely ignoring Mzajac's message and ping. Where doubt may have existed before, by now it was rather obvious Serial was deliberately ignoring Mzajac. To his credit, Mzajac does nothing. Perhaps Serial is just really, really, busy and will get around to it in due course? As anyone who knows Wikipedia, this is an extraordinarily generous amount of leeway in context.Please take back your unfounded accusation
You have made an accusation against me that seems to be made up from whole cloth.[9] This is WP:aspersion. Please strike or delete the comment. —Michael Z. 13:31, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
A full 48 hours after that attack, now 8 May, Serial returns a second time, and seemingly finally complies with Mzajac's request. Sort of. He strikes the post, and leaves this one beneath Mzajac's request.....
Although Mzajac never asked Serial for an apology, he gets one. A really shitty one. A day later, and he has inexplicably now deliberately insulted Mzajac ("legacy Admin" is widely understood to mean shit Admin) on top of his earlier accidental insult.Apologies. Indeed, it was a different legacy admin that I reported to the committee, with whom I was confusing you. You were not suspected of canvassing, I see on a re-read, but accused of harassment, bigotry and racism by one editor, allegations which seem to have been supported by another editor. Am happy to strike/clarify my previous remarks. Hope this helps! Apologies again. Cheers, SN54129 14:59, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
It seems like "legacy Admin" was what it was meant to be, a cheap and unjustified attack based on the simple fact Mzajac is a long time Admin, rather than what he has done with it. Worse still (and hilarious frankly), in making the allegation Mzajac was "accused of harassment, bigotry and racism" in that two year old debate, Serial made the exact same mistake he did the first time, failing to accurately recall events in crafting his attack. Granted, in this second attack, Serial is at least talking about the right editor now, which I guess is something. But he has still completely misrepresented what happened, by 180 degrees. Even after he "re-read!". Skimmed at best, clearly. Even though "by one editor, allegations which seem to have been supported by another editor." implies a detailed reading.
The plain truth of it is, Mzajac wasn't accused of harassment, he was accused of any making false accusations of harassment against another editor, Impru20. Still bad by Wikipedia standards, but not nearly as bad. It is of course also not as simple as that, since accusations were flying all over the place. Mzajac was possibly being misrepresented, possibly not, and there is the language issue too. For sure though, Impru20 was pissed.
Yet again, Serial hadn't provided a specific link (never mind quotes) as to where he claims these things happened, merely relying on the same original all encompassing header link to a huge and rambling debate. The stuff he was now referring to is far removed from the canvassing stuff, which was at least semi-discoverable by being under a relevant sub-heading.
This second attack refers to events occurring (waaay) down in this section..... Just search for "bigotry".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kyiv ... September)
So it definitely happened and involved Mzajac, just not the way Serial says it did. Which is of course all beside the point. The point being, these things happened in September 2020, in an unrelated debate and between people who have absolutely nothing to do with the proposal made by Mzajac where Serial made his original drive by comment mistakenly targeting Mzajac.
Since we already know Mzajac wasn't even the original intended target of that drive by, we can safely conclude this subsequent obvious shit stirring was designed to provoke and smear Mzajac for no apparent reason. That is Wikipedia policy, designed to de-escalate and avoid drama. They're all supposed to be writing and maintaining an encyclopedia, right?
Sadly, Serial's plan worked. He secured a play mate, or at least a play date. An hour later, Mzajac took the bait.....
To his credit, and bearing in mind he had done nothing that anyone can see here to provoke these aspersions and general disrespect by Serial (historical and presumably stale accusations aside), Mzajac is still being fairly restrained here. Snippy, but with justification. That is always important in pragmatic Wikipedia, where expecting perfect conduct is unrealistic. Violence is tolerable, you just need a valid reason.Lovely “apology,” user:Serial Number 54129. I was not accused of bigotry and racism. Please strike that too. Please stick to the subject and stop trying to score points by slagging me, poorly. —Michael Z. 15:54, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
When an Administrator did see the danger of what should have been a minor incident escalating rapidly (presumably because that is what one side (Serial) seems to want and has succeeded in baiting the other side into giving it to him) and stepped in quickly, it was not exactly the quiet word or clear and authoritative request you would hope to see. You might not even realise this guy is an Administrator.....
It has a curious effect on Serial. Ninety minutes later he reappears, having been editing elsewhere. He says absolutely nothing, and does only one thing. He pings Impru20.@Serial Number 54129: Specific links are particularly useful when making exceptional claims... If your memory was incorrect again, that's an egregious personal attack. Ed [talk] [majestic titan] 16:04, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
Shit stirring to the MAX. There's not a part of this that complies with Dispute Resolution. A hanging judge might call it harassment. As it was, although ignoring the ping, another Administrator at least offered a more direct request (my bolding).....
...but by then Serial was presumably already an hour up the nearest highway. Prick.@Serial Number 54129: - regardless of whether you're right or not (and my reading of the discussion doesn't square with your framing), I'm struggling to come up with a reason you'd dredge up an unrelated dispute that doesn't amount to trying to poison the well. Please provide an explanation or strike your comments. Parsecboy (talk) 17:35, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
Serial is ultimately on the run for a full 48 hours again. If this is starting to sound like he has a drinking problem, you are not alone. Keep that in mind...
Perhaps assuming the at least two Administrators who are aware of this dispute had it in hand and were waiting with handcuffs ready for the return of the memory impaired shit stirring editor who had outstanding warrants requests against his serial number, Mzajak seemingly moved on and carried on editing, including at his move proposal, where the smears remained, only half struck.
We cannot dismiss the possibility of course that Serial knows 48 hours is a long time in Wikiland, long enough for things to be forgottten by the hard working wikipolice officers who surely have better things to be doing than reminding an experienced editor to stop being such a raging asshole.
Sensing the coast is clear, Serial spends an hour catching up on matters arising, except of course the outstanding warrants. He was pinged, remember. Even if he missed it, surely he was curious to see if his own ping to Impru20 had actually caused any shit for Mzajac, in the absence of his good self to keep things on the boil?
Whatever his thoughts, he then embarked on a bit of housekeeping, archiving his talk page, one section at a time. Maybe an innocent act, but certainly a good way to make it just that little bit harder for anyone following up on the incident or just checking on this serial offender, to notice what he has been up to. He spends half an hour archiving nearly 150 sections, which adds 300 odd lines to his contribution history (10 May). And then he's gone again for another 48 hours.
He returns and makes one edit on the 12 May, and a handful on the 13th and 14th. He seems to feel the incident is behind him. Clearly Mzajak was still annoyed, and was now surely quite certain that the Administrators had absolutely no intention of at a minimum, closing out this episode in a way that sees Serial comply with the outstanding requests by the WikiPolice.
To recap, it had only been 6 days since Serial compounded an idiotic act of attempted drive-by, with an absurd apology and more innacurate smears now specifically directed at the innocent bystander he had mown down two days previously.
Serial has ignored the implied request by one Administrator to provide more specific direction to the police to where these alleged crimes by Mzajac, these "exceptional" claims, occurred, or if this was a case of when his "memory was incorrect again" (which we now know it was), or presumably face the consequences for making an "egregious personal attack".
His only response to that was a cryptic ping to a third party that looks for all the work like an attempt to further stir the shit and turn this from an episode of trying to smear or provoke Mzajac into an all out act of harassment, all over an incident that occurred two years ago that has nothing to do with Serial or the debate he was already shitting up with his wholly innacurate accusations.
He has completely ignored a more direct request from another Administrator whose "reading of the discussion doesn't square with [Serial's] framing", to explain or strike his second contribution, on the understanding that without an explanation, it appears to them that Serial's intent was to "dredge up an unrelated dispute" in an attempt to "poison the well".
Serial had been taking the absolute piss for six days by now, editing Wikipedia on and off, latterly on, without acknowledging these outstanding concerns/requests of both a fellow editor and two site Administrators. Since 8 May, Mzajac has said nothing about it, keeping his counsel, waiting for justice.
On that score, it's worth remembering Mzajac has not asked for anything that he isn't absolutely entitled to as a minimum under clear Wikipedia policy, namely the striking out of a patently false but potentially damaging accusation, a gross personal attack. It goes without question that if the shoe was on the other foot and there was an unstruck comment by Mzajac that claimed at least two editors thought Serial was a racist, and yet Mzajac provided absolutely no means of verifying that claim or showing how it was remotely relevant to where the comment was made, Serial would be outraged. A friendly Administrator would likely have blocked Mzajac without Serial having to even ask them to.
At the very least, this perhaps pragmatic view, which is tantamount to an Asshole's Charter and clear endorsement for the idea that even straight up harassment should be in that already large class of offending on Wikipedia the is included in the "just grow a thicker skin" / "just be the bigger man" / "just let it go" category, it rather does ignore the simple reality that the unstruck comment (and request for a potential ally) was still polluting an active proposal by Mzajac.
Any nominal statute of limitations on Wikipedia cannot logically say harassment ceases to be harassment while the intended harm is ongoing. The proposal has since been archived, so you could now realistically say the harm is lessened. But since archives can be read and linked to at any time, such as to show a user is a bad person, as shown by Serial, the potential for harm still exists.
This alone (ogoing harm from an unstruck smear in an active proposal) as well as the basic principle is reason enough to seek further assitance. Hence why Mzajac files an AN/I complaint, presumably. Assume good faith and all that. At the very least, to an unbiased observer who knows absolutely nothing about either party, who whatever their own histories have never interacted before this incident, an surely see Serial is the bigger problem here by a factor of about 100 to 1.
Mzajac perhaps now makes a very big mistake. Precisely because Wikipedia is a place with no justice and a lazy and borderline incompetent police force, escalating a matter officially, requires great care, if you want to get any kind of satisfactory outcome and avoid being further harmed.
It is not unreasonable to think that given Serial clearly has absolutely no defence for the inexcusable and yet multiple violations of clear and serious Wikipedia policy governing minimal expectations of behaviour when interacting with others or pursuing disputes, a satisfactory outcome here, for Mzajac and Wikipedia, is nothing less than striking the comments, and a clear and explicit warning to Serial that personal attacks, aspersions, and in their totality, harassment, are totally unacceptable, and a single repeat of such things will result in an immediate block.
In fact, Mzajac actually files a pretty good complaint initially. He says what happened, he provides diffs, he says what policies he think these violate, and he makes a reasonable request for resolution (strike or delete). He even gives people a heads up that they might see him doing not so great stuff in the old discussion.
His only errors are to be a little bit snarky and presumptive about Serial's motives and intent (obvious as they are from Serial's own actions and indeed inactions), and not being clear enough that the old discussion was two years ago and both that and Serial's drive-by are off topic and irrelevant. As in, this was not a more typical AN/I report where one party of an active two party dispute has got fed up and is asking for his opponent to be eliminated.
He also makes an error where he misses the fact Serial was technically entitled to archive Mzajac's talk page message without acknowledgement because he had by then struck the original comment in question (but it was still a dick move, given it was still a an active dispute without outstanding issues Serial had yet to address, including an identical request to explain or strike an offending comment to that which he had just archived).
The thing about Wikipedia is that because the culture is so fucked and Administrators are so lazy, it's almost impossible to have the ideal scenario of a situation that is considered ripe for an AN/I report but is also easily explained without error. And any error, no matter how minor and frankly irrelevant to the meat and potatoes issue (Serial has harassed Mzajac) will be used against you by those who absolutely do not want to see Wikipedia take action against their friend.
The fact is, this is a pretty well presented complaint about an issue where one editor has apparently launched completely unjustified attacks (or otherwise refuses to explain the reason for these attacks or why any nominal issue here isn't being handled in the proper manner) on an entirely innocent editor who thus far has conducted themselves with pretty creditable restraint in the circumstances (serious attacks, moderate to ineffective Admin interest) and is asking for an entirely reasonable and policy backed resolution.
Such as they are on Wikipedia, he is asking for his rights as an editor, to be upheld. As much as they often like to pretend otherwise, this is a critical function of Wikipedia's Administrators.
It was by then already obvious what his intent was. He was aiming to smear Mzajac and he could give two shits what even the site Administrators thought of his behaviour. He had done nothing in the face of push back other than show a willingness to recruit others in his efforts to bring irrelevant and factually inaccurate attacks into a proposal made by Mzajac for entirely unexplained and frankly inexcusable reasons, and then played a game of hide and seek.
The cost to everyone of willingly choosing to be a Wikipedia editor, is to accept that, because Serial is a so called "Vested Contributor" with many friends and enablers, the perfectly reasonable opinion deriving from Wikipedia's own rules and PR, that this is deplorable behaviour that in a different world, is what Wikipedia should be delivering site bans for, is a fantasy.
The reality of Wikipedia is this. When a person like Serial targets you, your expected response is to bend over and take it.
To think otherwise, is to invite crushing disappointment at best, trouble at worst. Unsurprisingly therefore, the AN/I report rapidly turned into a trainwreck.
How could it not, given the first responses....
Rather disturbingly, EvergreenFir is an Admin. And they are the exact opposite of a "legacy Admin", being promoted in 2019. Clearly standards have dropped, and it is now acceptable for an Administrator to dismiss a perfectly valid complaint out of hand, and very rudely.Oh for fuck sake, you're taking this to ANI? Move on. EEng 20:22, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
EEng, there are nicer ways to say that. —A. B. (talk • contribs • global count) 21:58, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
But it's warranted. This filing is ridiculous EvergreenFir (talk) 00:17, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
Ritchie333 is the first Administrator to take a stab at responding properly. And he does very poorly. He starts out inexplicably framing this as a civility violation, and on that basis advises the best way to deal with it is to disengage. The second best is to figure out why the user is angry. While policy for mere rudeness, both are idiotic opinions in the circumstances. This was far beyond a civility violation, almost if not harassment. Mzajac had already shown incredible restraint, and got nothing in return. And of course he had tried to figure out what was going on, and was merely further attacked.
Only much later, once he realises from other's comments that he probably should have figured out what has actually happened before chiming in as an Administrator, Ritchie takes a second stab at it. And he fucks up again. He seems to think the matter ended at Serial's first strike, as it were. He uses that to again conclude this is all a fuss about nothing. He at least reveals why he is being such a useless bastard - he is a drinking buddy of Serial. It says a lot about Wikipedia that the concept of a conflict of interest doesn't come into play even when you are real life friends with the person.
Mzajak does Ritchie a kindness and explains the dispute again, even though Ritchie could have figured out there was more to this If he had simply read the report. Now Ritchie finally realises Serial had made a serious accusations referring to that two year old thread, and it remains unstruck. His response? He wanders over to his drinking buddy, and first of all reassures him that he doesn't think there is a case to answer here. Wow.
Then he issues a "gentle reminder" to make sure Serial supplies diffs next time. His literal words are hilarious in context, "it's best to come armed with a bunch of diffs, so the rest of us can evaluate things on their merits." given Serial was indeed engaged in Wikipedia's version of armed conflict, and it is laughable to think Ritchie was evaluating merits or otherwise. He was looking for excuses and loopholes. Bros before policy.
Clearly Ritchie's interest in the matter begins and ends at how can he get his drinking buddy off the hook. Ritchie clearly doesn't realise how absurd it is to advise someone that when they're bringing irrelevant and two year old accusations to a dispute as a follow up to a mistaken identity attack, he should bring diffs. Ritchie is a moron. He never returns to the report.
Circling back, the first person to support Mzajac is JPxG, who concludes Serial's comment "seems somewhat unwarranted and uncollegial to me". Not exactly a stinging rebuke, but by this point I guess Mzakak should be counting himself lucky someone who isn't a drinking buddy of Serial or just a drunken bastard has responded. It hardly helps his cause though, since JPxG is not an Administrator.
It doesn't go unanswered. Administrator Jayron32 echoes Ritchie and bizarrely suggests disengagement and letting the matter drop, and worse still, that Mzajak should learn from their "mistake" and not "interact with them [Serial] again". Holy fuck! If it wasn't clear before, it now definitely seems like Serial has indeed got powerful but frankly insane friends and they are turning out in force to protect him by saying whatever they think will convince anyone who is uninvolved but pays scant attention to the matter that there is nothing to see here.
By now, the thread is of course becoming hard to parse, with Mzajac not helping his case by understandably wanting to correct every obvious error and otherwise stick up for himself, because nobody else is, at least nobody with any authority. This is by design. The assholes of Wikipedia take full advantage of the phenomena.
An even more powerful person has checked in by this point. Arbitrator Barkeep (if there was ever a report that didn't need more booze, it was this one!). They take issue with Jayron, but it doesn't exactly go anywhere, and Barkeep's interest, perhaps understandably given the role of Arbitrators (the boss of ordinary Admins), begins and ends at ensuring Administrators talking utter shit in court doesn't go unanswered. It says a lot about Wikipedia that the equivalent of a Supreme Court justice feels the need to get involved in run of the mill assault cases.
Another non-Administrator points out the obvious, namely "Dropping the matter seems like poor advice for a direct personal attack out of nowhere." Jayron does not respond. Barkeep does not take issue with this failure to be held accountable for acting as an Administrator in a way that is patently absurd.
Perhaps finally sensing he had fucked up and his boss was maybe still watching, Jayron clarifies matters....
Sadly all he does is clarify that he (Jayron) thinks Mzajac is not in fact reasonably defending his perfectly reasonable AN/I report where he is asking for a perfectly reasonable outcome. Jayron thinks asking for the second comment to be struck and coming to the Administrators when he is blatantly ignored.Just to make clear, SN was clearly and unambiguously in the wrong here. They should not have done what they did, and there is no possible excuse that could be offered up that would make it okay. Having said that, sometimes the effort spent getting a pound of flesh is better spent doing something else. Retribution is not always worth the effort. --Jayron32 14:49, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
Administrator Courcelles is next to offer an opinion. As a former Arbitrator, people were no doubt expecting a weighty and responsible one. They were to be disappointed. Presumably because they looked into this as little as Ritchie did, entirely missing the second comment, or have the same desire to see Serial get off Scot free (the motive and lack of diligence not necessarily unconnected), all they do is also suggest the matter is resolved with a simple reminder to Serial to check his facts before commenting.
What follows next is an interruption while the report is diverted by the appearance of an obvious sock intent on causing mischief. This happens a lot on Wikipedia, but notably, usually only in those cases where it is widely known drama is likely (cases involving so called "Unblockable" editors). By now, if you didn't know it already, it seems clear Serial is an unblockable.
Everyone seems to agree it is reasonable to assume this interruption is not Serial, and yet, who can say for sure? Serial is an asshole. Serial is experienced in Wikipedia. Serial would know how to sock. And Serial would know socks engaged in blatant mimicry of people currently at AN/I are usually dismissed as uninvolved trolls. Add all that to the fact Serial had never been seen since the report was filed, and had shown his intent to fuck with Mzajac for no apparent reason at all, who is to say it wasn't Serial?
The diversion is useful since it elucidated this from an existing participant....
It seems like a very apt reading of the situation. You can sense the depression. The realisation in this experienced user that this is what should happen, but never will.While I agree that SN's initial comment and pseudo-apology were both inappropriate, I don't think any admins on this board will strike them. My hope is that SN would be willing to self-reflect, admit that the comments were out of order, and strike them voluntarily. But given that they haven't engaged in this thread at all, I'm not holding my breath. LEPRICAVARK (talk) 05:09, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
Next cab on the rank is Lourdes. Her comment starts out very well, showing empathy and understanding.....
But you can probably already tell where she was going.....Hi Michael, I am sorry to see you go through this. Let me with no qualifications mention that you shouldn't have been thrown such comments. And your filing of a complaint is perfectly okay, as it has the benefit of allowing other editors to understand the context and background of the issue and to keep an eye out so that in the future, if a similar issue arose, we can connect the dots.
Once again, the feeling that the only people responding to this report are Administrators who for whatever reason like Serial and want to interpret events through the most rose turned of glasses, spectacles that also have a clear tendency to completely change their actual perception of actual events, rather than just colour them.Having said that, if I may dare to speak on Sn's behalf, he is not a bad guy at all. I have interacted with him occasionally and found him to be extremely congenial and supportive (yes, he does snap sometimes, but that is sometimes... and he almost always comes around to ensuring he corrects his errors in spirit and in actions). An olive branch never hurts, and I would suggest extend to him the same this time... Like I said, he's not a bad guy at all, and would come around. That said, I will reiterate and hope that you don't go through such experiences again. Warmly, Lourdes 08:31, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
Because as Mzajac quite reasonably pointed out, you would have to be one hell of a twisted person to advise the victim in this situation to extend an olive branch to the person who has already acted like a complete asshole, and has not been seen since it became clear he might actually face serious consequences. Spoiler alert, this ends up being one of those times Serial doesn't come around. His spirit and his actions are incontrovertibly that of someone who wanted to harass an unknown "legacy admin" for unknown reasons, then went on to harass the entirely innocent Mzajac for as yet unknown reasons, as then disappears rather than comply with the very reasonable request to explain how any of this was relevant to Mzajac's proposal and strike the offending second comment.
It seems reasonable to suggest that Serial is only ever a nice guy to Lourdes (and Ritchie and Courcelles etc) because there is some kind of quid pro quo at work. You would be right. The phenomenon of unblockabke users arises precisely this way. An asshole befriends or otherwise cultivates a relationship with enough Administrators to make sure that Administrators who have no feelings toward them never become the deciding factor in reports like this. Indeed, that they stay away entirely.
Now the thread goes from the sublime to the ridiculous. Administrator Rhododentrites is next on scene. They bizarrely conclude that the comments were "inappropriate, but we're not looking at some pattern of egregious rhetoric, so "unblockables" isn't really relevant. " What a wierd thing to say, when you have literally just explained to everyone that what actually happened here was that Serial turned up in a debate and dropped an irrelevant accusation seemingly designed solely to smear someone for reasons they never explain, and rather laughably hasn't even properly checked their facts. And then they did it again! On 6 May, his target was some unamed "legacy Administrator" who Serial had mistaken for Mzajac. On 8 May it was actually Mzajac.
Two almost identical offences, two days apart, is a pattern. And while I know standards on Wikipedia are low, but if accusing someone of Twitter canvassing, and then of bigotry and racism, are not examples of "egregious rhetoric" (the word rhetoric wrongly implying this was part of a legitimate debate gone awry), then what is?
By now, the pattern of the report is clear, but Rhodoendtires helpfully explains why Administrators are being so ineffective here. Rhododendrites does not seem to think Serial is getting away Scot free because the responding Administrators are corrupt or the offences are not actionable, they have identified a systematic issue.....
Just wow.We're in that large swath of territory where something is inappropriate but doesn't rise to the level of any real action being taken. Ideally SN would just pop in with a mea culpa or better evidence and this could be closed as resolved. Instead, it probably needs some sort of "please don't do that" or "reminder" about casting aspersions or content-not-contributors or some other stuff we all know SN is already aware of but performative tsk-tsking is the only option left, short of "just put up with it". — Rhododendrites talk \\ 12:55, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
Take a moment to think about what this says about the current state of Wikipedia. There is a suite of very clear behavioural policies and a robust system of sanctions. If users do very bad things like casting aspersions (and we know from ArbCom that casting aspersions is a highly toxic behaviour the Administrators are supposed to be taking very seriously), they are meant to be sent through a series of escalating actions, from polite reminders to warnings to blocks.
If it becomes clear that the user is basically ignoring policy, you are not to persist in some kind of utter farce where they are allowed to repeatedly get away with it and Administrators stand around with their thumbs up their asses or otherwise continue to issue warnings they know will be ignored. It sucks for the offender, but rack up enough seeking minor infractions, and yes, Wikipedia can and will block you indefinitely. You will only be allowed back in, if you make a clear statement that you understand what casting aspersions means, you understand it is forbidden, and you commit to never doing it again.
Not now and again, not when you're drunk or angry, but never. You have had all the chances you are going to get, motherfucker. Editing Wikipedia is a privilege, not a right, and there are thousands of editors here who are more than capable of abiding the the rules for years on end. You are not special. Wikipedia does not need you.
That's the theory anyway.
Rhododentrites shows quite well, what the current practice is.
Step 1: Whether through incompetence, friendship or corruption, misinterpret a situation to the benefit of the offender, downgrading in your mind the seriousness of the offence (harassment becomes personal attacks, personal attacks becomes incivility, casting aspersions becomes a non-egregious offence).
Step 2: Acknowledge the offender is a serial violator of policies that he is fully aware of so hardly needs reminding of what they are, so throw your hands in the air and say, what can be done but engage in some kind of Administrative theatre for the sake of it, or just ignore it and do nothing at all.
Step 3: Do nothing at all.
In the fine Wikipedia tradItion of BOOMERANG, the thread doesn't peter out before some random nobody turns up to try and make It all about Mzajac.....
This charge against Mzajac may very well be true, and Ostalgia made a compelling case with diffs and quotes. So maybe Mzajac is a problem that needs to be dealt with. But is this how to do it? Policy says no, obviously. At a minimum, start your own section with your own proposal.But my point is a far simpler one - your behaviour is a driver of conflict in the area, and not, as you say, a contribution to a less hostile environment. You fail to assume good faith and are constantly casting aspersions regarding other users in good standing, yet at the same time get worked up when you're on the receiving end of any such aspersion. I was very clear in stating that SN54129 should either rectify or withdraw his accusation, but I think you would do well to look at your own behaviour in the area. Ostalgia (talk) 00:39, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
What is even happening here? Is Ostalgia even seeking action against Mzajac? He offers no proposal. Even though if his claims are true, Mzajac should be blocked. A few things make it far more likely this contribution was made solely to assist Serial. With this comment, Ostalgia merely adds themselves to a long list of people who apparently accept Serial needs to strike his comment, but apparently doesn't want to force him to do it, and worse still, seems to take the view that one cannot ask them to do so unless Mzajac takes responsibility for entirely unrelated offences that we are apparently meant to generously assume was the underlying intent of Serial's aspersions.
Ridiculous. As any reasonable person can see, Ostalgia here is only to advocate for a situation and environment where Wikipedia becomes more hostile, not less. To sanction Mzajac not Serial (rather than both) would actually reward someone who violated every single part of Wikipedia's "dispute resolution" manual and was at this time still in hiding presumably to avoid any consequences, and encourage others to do it.
With that done, Administrators finally make it clear (as if it wasn't already) that the official position is that Mzajac can fuck right off if he thinks he is going to get anything from this report. He will get not a damn thing. Even though he has still never actually asked for anything more than the comment to be struck.
So it appears there is a rather long and convoluted backstory that led to a mistake that does not amount to a pattern. Action on either score is unlikely here, most certainly the message has been received; we have a productive editor no longer editing. Is it not time to close this thread with no action ? SandyGeorgia (Talk) 12:41, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
And there you have it, in a nutshell.Discussion has run its course. Thank you Sandy. Drmies (talk) 01:22, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
It is fitting that the substantive Admin response to the thread began and now ends with the lie about there being no parttern being repeated. Casting aspersions on May 6 and May 8 is a pattern. Ignoring requests for explanations, with pings while merrily editing elsewhere, several times, is clearly a pattern.
Being away from Wikipedia inexplicably for twelve days from the very moment an AN/I report is filed against you, when you have barely been off it for more than 48hours previously, is clearly a proportionate extension of that pattern. It is informally called "AN/I flu". Wikipedia having a rather bad habit of giving joke descriptions to serious personality defects. In this case, extreme cowardice and a steadfast refusal to take responsibility for one's own extremely despicable actions (in large part because you hope others will do it for you).
They do not wish to see the patterns, because in present day Wikipedia, it is all but accepted that an experienced editor who should know better committing a single yet egregious error, is "unactionable". Only patterns of misconduct are actionable.
Unbelievably, the last time Serial was actually blocked, was 2018, but that seems to have been a mistake. Their last block for cause, was 2015. Tellingly, he had been blocked for 48 hours personal attacks, and yet was unblocked after convincing an Administrator he understood what he had done and wouldn't do it again. So clearly, given what his own friends say about him, you can be sure he wasn't reformed by that experience and he has been getting away with this shit for THIRTEEN YEARS.
Since that block, the last time Serial was officially warned was, well, who really gives a fuck? It hardly matters, does it? If it ever even happened, it will have been a "performative" act of "tsk tsk", not a necessary element of behavioural change.
Serial was still missing at the time the report petered out. Did he transmit his sense of guilt and apology through telepathy? And in recognition that Wikipedia doesn't do guilt or forced apology, did he transmit a clear statement that he knows what he did is wrong, and promises never to repeat it?
Of course he didn't.
He was reported to the Administrators, and he ran away. Many people clearly stated his conduct was inappropriate, others still said his second comment should be struck. Many expressed an apparently forlorn hope that Serial should be man enough to realise this and do it himself. Some even claimed that is who he really is, a stand up guy with integrity, while providing no evidence for this extraordinary claim which is contradicted completely on this evidence, which shows Serial has no integrity and is a total coward.
As you are no doubt already suspecting, he won't. His first substantive edit upon his return was this perhaps unsurprising defence of an Vested Contributor...
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... 1157423297
Buried within it you will see the rather hilarious claim that Serial believes that on Wikipedia, in order to foster a non-toxic collegiate environment, everyone should.....
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.treat people as you want to be treated
This is Wikipedia. A community where this asshole is getting away with saying that on the very same noticeboard where his twelve day absence was a critical factor in how a report arising him for doing something very toxic and then compounding it with other toxic behaviours, went absolutely nowhere.
Did anyone notice? Did anyone care?
The hypocrisy is astounding, the Administrative complicity, clear and obvious.
And as you may or may not know, if you think it is intolerable that Serial can get away with this, as an outsider, your ability to flag it up is non-existent. Making a post to Wikipedia pointing out that Serial has returned, praise be, and so he can now be asked formally why he did what he did and why he won't voluntarily strike that comment as a gesture the he does indeed believe in equal treatment and the message of the AN/I report (inappropriate etc) was actually received, will be instantly removed, your account blocked. Emailing your concerns will be filed the the round shaped object marked "fuck off". It won't matter if your name is Jimmy Wales or Joe Biden. It's their project, managed by and for them, nobody else, so you can go fuck yourself, you fucking snowflake.
And the owners of Wikipedia certainly cannot get involved, the Code of Conduct that suggest otherwise being a complete lie (in formal terms, rather laughably as you can see from incidents like this, the Arbitration Committee assumes full and complete responsibility for ensuring the external Code is respected by ensuring the internal rules of Wikipedia are respected). What a joke that is.
The rules exist and are clear, to the point of being unambiguous when faced with a situation where a user commits egregious violations such as casting aspersions, does it repeatedly, deliberately declines to offer reasonable or indeed any explanations for what is on its face a wholly unacceptable behaviour, up to and including taking an unexplained leave of absence when the matter is formally raised. Add to that the fact their only actual responses look awfully like an attempt to harass by recruiting confederates, if harassment isn't already a reasonable explanation of their conduct up to then, and what more needs to be said?
The editors, Administrators and even Arbitrators, never do and never will enforce these rules.
This is why brand Wikipedia is losing its lustre among the young, who are idealistic by their nature, and getting increasingly intolerant of institutional tolerance of behaviours that wholly disrespect and disparage their fellow humans, failing to protect victims from aggressors.
This is why individual small donations to Wikipedia are falling, and the Foundation is turning to the likes of Google, Amazon and rich boomers for funding. Paragons of virtue, well known for their love of equality and charity.
The death of Wikipedia is inevitable. A future where Serial, Ritchie, Barkeep, and all the other incompetent or indeed corrupt bastards deny they had anything to do with it, is similarly inevitable.
I'm the mean time, while we wait, Serial can be found at the following address....
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... 1157273821
2A02:C7C:36B1:FB00:E8F1:B916:A759:5EFD
He was no doubt hoping he could use these edits to explain his absence, not that he needed to of course.
Oh noes! My computer exploded, so of course I couldn't respond to that AN/I report. Oh what terrible bad luck for all concerned. Oh well. Never mind. I guess I will just continue the behaviour I am known for around Wikipedia, being a stand up guy who has total respect for Administrators and total intolerance for trolling or users that want to continue arguments for the sake of it.
Spoiler alert: All the really bad actors on Wikipedia think you dear reader really are just that fucking stupid and don't recognise performative theatre and institutional disinterest/complicity when you see it.
You can also find Serial and several Wikipedia Administrators over at Wikipediocracy. But since that nominally independent venue is nothing but an offshoot of Wikipedia with no real interest in exposing the root causes of its dysfunction and therefore determining a reason why the whole world has to suffers its malignant presence in our information space, well, don't expect any assistance from them. They are even less interested in why Serial is a despicable coward or Ritchie is a dumb basard at best, complicit harasser at worst. Questions like that annoy their membership, because these shithouses are their membership.
Moderator note: This post has been shortened to be more readable, the original version can be found here.
