Eastern European Warfare

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Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:58 am

In early February, a research paper confirmed what this forum has known for years

In the last decade, a group of committed Wikipedia editors have been promoting a skewed version of history. The research paper stated that these editors are "subtle manipulators" and "outright lairs."

Did Wikipedia do anything to mitigate the damage done by a handful of editors to falsify thousands of articles? NO
Did Wikipedia rush in to correct any of the thousands of incorrect articles? NO
Did Wikipedia restrict editors who are propagandists from editing articles? NO

Did the Wikimedia Foundation do anything to protect the public from outright lies? NO
They bounced the problem back to the flawed processes of Wikipedia which is now holding a "kangaroo court" in the form of "an arbitration." A process where everyone has a say and nothing gets decided or done.
Thus at present; The editors who were named for promoting lies and propaganda are still busy at work distorting history and reality with no ramifications whatsoever.

The research paper is the "tip of the iceberg;" The main point that "a group of committed Wikipedia editors have been promoting a skewed version of" reality is not something that is in any way isolated.

I will be expanding this thread with links and support - as mentioned this forum knew about this problem for years so it's just a matter of organizing information here and on Wikipedia.
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by ericbarbour » Sat Feb 25, 2023 6:22 am

By way of background, relisting the older arbitrations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... rus-Ghirla
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... on/Piotrus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... n/Digwuren
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... ern_Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... iling_list
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia: ... ia-Biophys

Concentrate on the EEML and Digwuren cases. Russavia is gone but most of the same people are still farting around on WP.

This is the new case wexter mentioned: "Holocaust in Poland". It mentions and links to the academic paper. "My very best wishes" was "Biophys" in the older cases. Even without Russavia the petty screaming shit never ends.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... _in_Poland

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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:22 pm

"Holocaust in Poland"
What is going on with "a group of editors" framing articles is far wider than just "Holocaust in Poland." The research paper cites 300 articles but the number is far larger; and the scope of articles polluted with lies is far greater.
with a Polish nationalist bent. Their Wikipedia names are Piotrus, Volunteer Marek, GizzyCatBella, Nihil novi, Lembit Staan, and Xx236, as well as previously active editors Poeticbent, MyMoloboaccount, Tatzref, Jacurek, and Halibutt.Footnote23 Combined, these individuals have authored substantial portions of multiple Wikipedia articles


The editors implicated in spreading lies are actively doing so to this day. You would think that an outside research paper alleging wrongdoing would cause Wikipedia to take immediate action to suspend users involved in allegedly spreading lies pending investigation.

Even so, Until the arbitration is resolved it is a clear conflict of interest that these editors can continue manipulating articles. There is no stopping the propaganda (and manipulation of the process);

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... _in_Poland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... _Holocaust

I am listing recent contributions for clarity. Pick out articles related to Poland, Jews, Ukraine, Holocaust, related historic figures. Or alternately; you will find few entries outside the scope of the editors objectives.

Illustratively you can see the single minded effort of GizzyCatBella who deleted calls to recuse herself.


07:27, 25 February 2023 diff hist +564‎ Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard ‎ →‎Jewish collaboration in the Holocaust: Reply thank Tag: Reply
06:39, 25 February 2023 diff hist +6‎ Tadeusz Gajcy ‎No edit summary current thank [rollback] [vandalism]
06:36, 25 February 2023 diff hist −1‎ List of political editing incidents on Wikipedia ‎ →‎Pro- and anti-China editing current thank Tag: Visual edit [rollback] [vandalism]
05:23, 25 February 2023 diff hist +233‎ Franz Kutschera ‎ Restored revision 1107606377 by Bigwig7 (talk): ''The'' extended-confirmed restriction ''described at'' WP:APL50030 ''apply.'' current thank Tags: Twinkle Undo [rollback] [vandalism]
05:16, 25 February 2023 diff hist +7‎ History of the Polish Army ‎No edit summary current thank [rollback] [vandalism]
03:57, 25 February 2023 diff hist +790‎ Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists ‎ →‎Pre-war activities: replace unsourced with sourced current thank Tag: Visual edit [rollback] [vandalism]
24 February 2023
14:21, 24 February 2023 diff hist +558‎ Talk:Collaboration with the Axis powers ‎ →‎Is it collaboration if:: Reply thank Tag: Reply
14:10, 24 February 2023 diff hist +627‎ Talk:Collaboration with the Axis powers ‎ →‎Is it collaboration if:: Reply thank Tag: Reply
13:34, 24 February 2023 diff hist +377‎ Talk:Military history of Poland during World War II ‎ →‎Name of this article: Reply thank Tag: Reply
08:01, 24 February 2023 diff hist +8‎ Erich Muhsfeldt ‎No edit summary current thank [rollback] [vandalism]
07:39, 24 February 2023 diff hist +584‎ User talk:GizzyCatBella ‎ →‎Editing in pending arbitration: Reply current thank Tag: Reply [rollback] [vandalism]
23 February 2023
20:02, 23 February 2023 diff hist −30‎ 2nd Legions Home Army Infantry Division ‎ Removed tag entered by a sock puppet see Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Raymondskie99 current thank Tag: Visual edit [rollback] [vandalism]
18:01, 23 February 2023 diff hist +585‎ User talk:Pofka ‎ →‎Marcelus: Reply thank Tag: Reply
15:28, 23 February 2023 diff hist +3‎ Irene Gut Opdyke ‎ Irene Gut Opdyke thank
13:55, 23 February 2023 diff hist +487‎ Military history of Poland during World War II ‎ →‎Poles in the German Armed Forces: Restored what was removed by a sock-puppet (see Icewhiz/JoeZ451 edit January 8, 2020, with an edit summary "Update with scholarly citations" thank Tag: 2017 wikitext editor
13:26, 23 February 2023 diff hist −389‎ Military history of Poland during World War II ‎ →‎Polish resistance: Restored to pre-socking version (see Icewhiz/JoeZ451 edit January 9, 2020, with an edit summary "Update number and actual armed strength with citation") thank Tag: 2017 wikitext editor

Or here Piotrus editing into the same subject matter in related topics


(newest | oldest) View (newer 50 | older 50) (20 | 50 | 100 | 250 | 500)
25 February 2023
10:27, 25 February 2023 diff hist +74‎ ProQuest ‎ →‎Products current thank Tag: 2017 wikitext editor [rollback] [vandalism]
10:21, 25 February 2023 diff hist +1,145‎ Talk:Tadeusz Piotrowski (sociologist) ‎ →‎Citation to Judith Olsak-Glass, Sarmatian Review: Reply current thank Tag: Reply [rollback] [vandalism]
10:08, 25 February 2023 diff hist +156‎ Ewa Thompson ‎ c/e current thank Tag: Visual edit [rollback] [vandalism]
09:13, 25 February 2023 diff hist +447‎ User:Piotrus/Response ‎ →‎Background: come to think of it... current thank Tags: Visual edit Disambiguation links added [rollback] [vandalism]
05:04, 25 February 2023 diff hist +670‎ Talk:History of the Polish Army ‎ →‎Military history of Poland: new section current thank Tag: New topic [rollback] [vandalism]
05:02, 25 February 2023 diff hist +70‎ Template:WWII history by nation ‎ like with France, link mil hist subarticle current thank Tag: 2017 wikitext editor [rollback] [vandalism]
05:01, 25 February 2023 diff hist +11‎ m History of the Polish Army ‎ →‎Second Polish Republic and World War II (1918–1945) thank Tag: 2017 wikitext editor
04:11, 25 February 2023 diff hist +5‎ m User:Piotrus/Response ‎No edit summary thank Tag: 2017 wikitext editor
04:10, 25 February 2023 diff hist +5,144‎ User:Piotrus/Response ‎ +an incident I missed thank Tag: Visual edit
03:22, 25 February 2023 diff hist +532‎ Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests ‎ →‎Uncontroversial technical requests thank Tag: 2017 wikitext editor
03:21, 25 February 2023 diff hist +334‎ Talk:Military history of Poland during World War II ‎ →‎Name of this article: Reply thank Tag: Reply
03:16, 25 February 2023 diff hist +564‎ Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard ‎ →‎Jewish collaboration in the Holocaust: Reply thank Tag: Reply
24 February 2023
14:49, 24 February 2023 diff hist 0‎ m User:Piotrus/Response ‎No edit summary thank Tag: 2017 wikitext editor
14:48, 24 February 2023 diff hist +301‎ User:Piotrus/Response ‎No edit summary thank Tag: 2017 wikitext editor
14:39, 24 February 2023 diff hist +1,688‎ User:Piotrus/Response ‎ →‎Factual errors thank Tag: 2017 wikitext editor
14:26, 24 February 2023 diff hist +976‎ User:Piotrus/Response ‎ →‎Factual errors thank Tag: 2017 wikitext editor
13:48, 24 February 2023 diff hist +29‎ N Pilecki Report ‎ ←Redirected page to Witold's Report current thank Tags: New redirect Visual edit
13:48, 24 February 2023 diff hist −49‎ m Auschwitz bombing debate ‎ →‎The Polish underground reports: overlinking... current thank Tag: Visual edit [rollback] [vandalism]
13:46, 24 February 2023 diff hist −42‎ m Auschwitz bombing debate ‎ →‎Allied intelligence on the Holocaust: better link thank Tag: Visual edit

The arbitration is very narrow and the propaganda effort is very wide.
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:07 pm

At the present moment some hardcore Wikipedia's are trying to use information on this forum to rationalize their failure to take meaningful action to actually address the problem they own and are responsible for.


It's far simpler to accuse an external party of bias or label anyone attempting to uphold truth within Wikipedia as a fake account. However, taking accountability and finding a solution to propaganda and hate that has persisted for years is a much more challenging task to be avoided at all costs.

Besides the research paper identifying outright lies, a key figure in calling out propaganda for what it is was an editor called "Icewhiz."
Rather than addressing the issue of "telling outright lies" it is much easier to claim victimization, hunt for sock puppets, claim that you are being harassed, and/or exploit the process of Wikipedia via a bevy of "kangaroo courts."

The issue is not "Icewhiz" or an army of sock puppets - the issue is Wikipedia was caught in systemically massive lies and they won't do anything about it.

Frankly it is very hard to "decipher" the internal jargon and babble of Wikipedia editors talking to each other - so I am going to try to break apart what was said in January of 2022.

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ol ... ation_camp

The following is an amalgam of what was said in the above link (including but not limited to what Icewhiz was saying)

1) A group of polish propagandists are spreading lies and revising history spanning a wide variety of topics for years
2) strong allies on Wikipedia (including administrators and arbitrators) currently make them immune to criticism
3) The parties doing the damage are making claims that they are victims
4) Nobody wants to call out Antisemitism for what it is
5) The press is reluctant to carry stories critical of Wikipedia
6) There is no internal way to address problems within Wikipedia
7) Sources can be interpreted any which way; and in these cases intentional false interpretations are widespread
8) Outside people critiquing Wikipedia should be ignored, and are irrelevant
9) There is no realization that bad information destroys the credibility of Wikipedia
10) If you point out that an entry lacks credibility you are the enemy
11) Parties and individuals can benefit greatly through misconduct, teaming up, and swarming topics
12) Lots of noise and nothing sticks
13) Individuals and groups can dominate topics and basically own them
14) People with integrity usually resign from the platform; there is very little or no upside in participating unless you have an agenda
15) There is no control over content - WMF does not control content; nor does the arbitration committee being the "high kangaroo court" of Wikipedia; in 2022 the arbitration committee let the wrongdoers and lairs ride! (that will happen again)

The above bullet points are derived from the link.
I did pull a few quotes from the link which I think reinforce the story
"English Wikipedia has no tools for resolving the problems of that kind." Paul Siebert
"Piotrus and Volunteer Marek, "Might you consider rotating out of this topic area?" Jehochman

I agree that that is a serious misinterpretation, and, as I know from my own experience, that is not a single isolated example
Ermenrich writes: Quote -->The truth is that.... these editors are pushing an agenda that damages the encyclopedia as well. [79] @User:Ermenrich - Back up these accusations with diff's or strike that. Right now, please (!).
@ ArbCom - Please do not permit tossing serious accusations without evidence anymore. - GizzyCatBella
there is likely to be no cost for misconduct, and possibly a great benefit - Robert McClenon
the actors mentioned by basically control the topic area, especially after two of them had their topic bans removed.
Several editors removed their statements, and the OP has left on wiki break. One editor just announced their retirement, citing stress culminating in this very case as a reason.
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Sat Feb 25, 2023 11:42 pm

This abortion has been going around in circles on Wikipedia for at least three years; with nothing addressed; wrongdoing is never addressed; there is an occasional slap on the wrist in the form of a topic ban which is quietly reversed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... _in_Poland

Here is one of many chronologies of "the never addressed story of lies, falsehoods, and deceit." Can you lie to the public and frame false history for three years? how about five? how about ten?

-Case opened on 14:40, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
-Case closed on 17:54, 22 September 2019 (UTC)
-Case amended by motion on 02:39, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
-Case amended by motion on 19:54, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
-Case amended by motion on 02:34, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
-Case amended by motion on 18:48, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
-Case amended by motion on 10:15, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

Beyond claiming victimization "Volunteer Marek" has this to say and he is absolutely correct that content does not matter!
"It is not the Arbitration Committee's job to adjudicate content disputes .. The committee to take this case ONLY IF they are willing to look into sources, check what’s actually in them, delve into who’s misrepresenting what. "
What "Volunteer Marek" does not say;

1) There are no internal controls, body, or processes to verify the quality or accuracy of content, or to prevent narrative framing or propaganda. Nobody cares about false and dangerously false content (even if they are called out by an outside expert).


2) What little process there is "speaks to the person" she is bad - he is bad - he is a sock puppet - he has not "litigated" his complaints with "diffs" (a chronology of he said she said)

3) Nobody takes responsibility for content; The Wikimedia Foundation, The Arbitration Committee, Administrators

4) Content is delegated to "the toxic mess" of endless and cryptic infighting.


What the whole platform does not understand! is that an "encyclopedia" is supposed to be about factual content. The case illustrates very clearly that absolutely no controls exist to assure the content is correct, fair, or accurate.

The press needs to generate the guts necessary to use this illustrative case to call Wikipedia out for the disaster it is.



With AI waiting in the wings perhaps this problem (which is a huge societal problem of poor information flow and quality) might take care of itself.

To Wikipedia an WMF; How embarrassed are you? How embarrassed to you really need to be?
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Sun Feb 26, 2023 2:20 am

Some excerpts from the current arbitration case (which consists of statements of folks talking past each other) with responsibility shifting to Wikipedia's arch enemy IceWhiz who was mentioned 62 times;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... _in_Poland
Statement by Robert McClenon

The G&K paper makes very serious allegations about the corruption of the editorial process of the English Wikipedia.

The integrity of both the WMF and the English Wikipedia have been attacked, and there is a real common enemy.

To Mr McClenon

- Yes, there is systemic corruption in the editorial process of Wikipedia
- No, people speaking the truth about Wikipedia's corruption are not your enemies
-Your organization needs to have the ability to present an encyclopedic product to the public free of bias, agenda, lies, or corruption. The enemy of Wikipedia is itself because it lacks the internal controls, structure, and process to fulfill its mission statement.

Standard Operating Procedure Blame Icewhiz and claim victimization - no responsibility taking required; not a single editor took personal responsibility for their actions or edits.

There are a few glimmers of hope mixed in.

"The behind the scenes is not just Icewhiz doxing and harassment"

"It's still a battleground where too much time is spent chasing Icewhiz and not enough time fixing articles. And why should I try to fix them when it's likely that I'm just going to have to fight tooth-and-nail to exclude obviously unreliable sources"

"..misconduct by Grabowsky and Klein; this misconduct was instigated by the banned user Icewhiz; and the publication in The Journal of Holocaust Research should be retracted. Yes, there was a recent disaster in this subject area, and that disaster is Icewhiz. After being banned, he managed to create sockpuppets and nearly successfully applied to a position of a WP administrator. He also managed to instigate the previous arbitration request in 2021"

"The story with serious mischief by Icewhiz in WP, including his harassment of very same contributors. Given that G&K strongly support Icewhiz in their essay, this whole story has an appearance of G&K acting as representatives of Icewhiz who circumvents his site ban by using G&K as his "proxies""

"Given that Icewhiz has explicitly stated that his goal is to destroy the reputation of his "enemies", and has duped outside media outlets into repeating his slanderous claims, perhaps it is time to reconsider this and if applicable, issue some findings of innocence or good standing at the end of those proceedings. In other words, community needs to deal with harassment not only by dealing with harassers (which is difficult in cases of harassment by already banned/off wiki parties) but find a way to actively support the victims"

"What the ArbCom should do is to see if any Wikipedia policies have been broken, for example through harassment or casting aspersions, creating battlegrounds, and such, and if they have been broken, deal with the parties responsible - and if not, then say so explicitly, to dispel the myth/allegation that this (painful...) topic is haunted by some editors who violate policies (other than Icewhiz and his socks)"

"I will just note that in the past few days editors alleged that Icewhiz ghost-wrote the article, was a (likely) co-author even though he was not mentioned there or that he was the main source for information about Wikipedia and that the authors allege that the named editors might be on govt's payroll even when the paper does not make that allegation and gives no indication that Icewhiz was behind it "

"I am concerned that some Committee members may be intimidated by external pressures. If they don't deliver the kind of verdict that Icewhiz, or Grabowski & Klein, desire, they may fear they will experience harassment similar to what I have incurred."

"I've observed from the outside the ongoing issues, including the Icewhiz saga, and it's clearly unresolved and the outcomes of previous processes questionable. One way or another this boil needs lancing. (2) I've read the Grabowski and Klein essay and even if only 20% of it is true, action is needed to address the issues raised."

"Decide that the article is tainted by association with Icewhiz, and basically ignore it."

"(and given what I understand about the whole Icewhiz craziness) is that they're actually are a lot of sockpuppets running around and that'd be frustrating to deal with. But not everyone is a sockpuppet."

"Overreacting to Icewhiz is human nature, and not sanctionable"

"accused two highly reputed scholars of publishing material ghost-written by Icewhiz. While such paranoia may or may not be justified in light of Icewhiz's disruptive activities, such behaviour does disservice to our project."

" the go-to behaviour of a set of certain POV pushers has been to scream "Icewhiz" and claim immunity."

"I would suggest that the journal paper in question be given limited weight at least because of the obvious association with Icewhiz."

"By taking up this matter (and it's my understanding that the impetus of this is Icewhiz himself) you are effectively including a wide swath of his opinions in the matter. This effectively makes public publications a back door to having views aired even though they are banned. "

"He who fights monsters will either become a monster himself and be punished for it (e.g Icewhiz) or be scared away from the fight; it's nearly impossible to handle a group of monsters simultaneously."

"discussions elsewhere on and off-wiki have already raised multiple factual failings in the article, non-included interviews, significant missed or agenda-based statements (most notably regarding Icewhiz and an "unfair ban")."

"Jacinda01 has been indefinetly blocked in Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Icewhiz/Archive#14 February 2023, and should be removed as a party per the message above the listed parties "

"But I also wonder if the specter of Icewhiz hasn't obfuscated misconduct by a number of parties, including those who agree with Icewhiz on much of the content."

"I am shocked that Eostrix, an Icewhiz sock that Arbcom had to block by motion to prevent from passing a request for adminship, has not been mentioned by anyone. "

" think our fear of Icewhiz has clouded our judgement. We must be mindful of his socks, and his attempts to influence us. But we cannot let our fear of Icewhiz stop us from actually doing the hard work of building the encyclopedia. Otherwise, Icewhiz has already won."

"Icewhiz off-wiki behaviour was dreadful, and I'm saddened that we're still dealing with the same issues"



A fake Nazi death camp in Warsaw
On 4 October, 2019 Haaretz published "The Fake Nazi Death Camp: Wikipedia's Longest Hoax, Exposed", with later coverage in The Times of Israel, The Week, and at least nine other news sources in several languages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... _the_media

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/201 ... 6f77000000

On his way out Icewhiz wrote a letter to Jimbo Wales who (of course) did nothing; not being responsible for the workings of Wikipedia or the content. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =918643782

So we have tens and tens of thousands (or even hundreds of thousands) of meaningless words (over a period of years) where people are talking past each other with no responsibility taking whatsoever or action required. Nobody is responsible at the bottom and nobody is responsible at the very top.
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by ericbarbour » Sun Feb 26, 2023 4:06 am

Statement by Robert McClenon
The integrity of both the WMF and the English Wikipedia have been attacked, and there is a real common enemy.
This has been non-official but typical SOP on Wikipedia since 2003-04. "No one can POSSIBLY claim Wikipedians are not 100% competent and reliable, and anyone who does is an ENEMYYYYYY and must be DESTROYED !!!111!!!11!11!1!!!!! How DARE anyone criticize US!!!!!! Or point out when we fuck things up!!!! How DARE they!!!1!1!!!!!!!!!"

There are old tapes of L. Ron Hubbard saying very similar things about HIS critics. I do not joke.

Wikipedia is a cult, not a "reference work".

"accused two highly reputed scholars of publishing material ghost-written by Icewhiz. While such paranoia may or may not be justified in light of Icewhiz's disruptive activities, such behaviour does disservice to our project."
Yet another thing I expect from them. And a thing they will deny and deny if challenged.

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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:27 pm

Volunteer Marek authors his own blog to blame "Icewhiz" while calming to be the victim

https://volunteermarek.substack.com/p/m ... -and-klein
The allegations made against me in Grabowski and Klein’s article are completely false. I have not engaged in any “Holocaust distortion”, on Wikipedia or anywhere else. I am not a “right wing Polish nationalist”. I am not part of some nefarious “Polish conspiracy” on Wikipedia which seeks to manipulate content. All of these accusations are ridiculous and absurd. They are particularly disgusting and vile since they go against everything I believe in.
To Volunteer Marek

In 2019, you were advised that if you value integrity and aspire to uphold the moral high ground, it would be best to refrain from editing articles in topics where outside parties believe you have a conflict of interest. This advice still stands today and has been reiterated in the current arbitration request.

It is important to recognize that editing articles while having a conflict of interest can damage the credibility and accuracy of the information presented. It may also raise concerns about the impartiality and objectivity of the editor and the credibility of Wikipedia.

To maintain your integrity, it would be wise to avoid editing such articles and focus on other topics that do not present such conflicts.

By doing so, you would be demonstrating your commitment to ethical standards and ensure that the information provided is reliable and unbiased.

Regards

------

Internal Link on Volunteer Marek

https://wikipediasucks.co/forum/viewtopic.php?t=489
Naturally then, because Wikipedians are conditioned to never admit when they were wrong lest they lose that precious commodity, social standing, he then pretended like it hadn't even happened - Crowsnest
And there we have the same sociopathic behavior = never admit when you are wrong; never take responsibility; never look at yourself objectively; blame someone else; play the victim; stonewall and fight to your own death; and never make an adjustment to your own behavior no matter how slight.

VolunteerMarek would rather see hundreds of people spinning in an arbitration request than do the right thing and recuse himself from topics of controversy and as such where he has a conflict of interest. He just won't do the right thing. Socipaths needs to be forced into doing the "right thing."

Excerpts from his current editing history - find a single minded focus to edit in areas of alleged wrongdoing; almost every single entry focuses in on Jews, Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Holocaust. If he is an innocent suspect why does he continue to return "the crime scene" time and time again?"





19:54, 25 February 2023 diff hist +2‎ Jan Błoński ‎ →‎Biography current thank [rollback] [vandalism]
19:54, 25 February 2023 diff hist +28‎ Jan Błoński ‎ →‎Biography: clarify and link thank
19:52, 25 February 2023 diff hist −8‎ Jan Błoński ‎ →‎Biography: tone it down thank
17:24, 25 February 2023 diff hist +817‎ Talk:Naliboki massacre ‎ →‎Section on the 2001 investigation thank
00:42, 25 February 2023 diff hist −6‎ Talk:Naliboki massacre ‎ →‎Section on the 2001 investigation thank
00:41, 25 February 2023 diff hist +448‎ Talk:Naliboki massacre ‎ →‎Section on the 2001 investigation thank
00:06, 25 February 2023 diff hist +1,795‎ Talk:Naliboki massacre ‎ →‎Section on the 2001 investigation thank
23 February 2023
12:39, 23 February 2023 diff hist −352‎ Kluczbork ‎No edit summary current thank Tag: Manual revert [rollback] [vandalism]
12:31, 23 February 2023 diff hist +32‎ Trzcińsko-Zdrój ‎No edit summary current thank Tag: Manual revert [rollback] [vandalism]
22 February 2023
...
02:01, 22 February 2023 diff hist +4‎ Donetsk Oblast ‎No edit summary thank
02:01, 22 February 2023 diff hist −18‎ Donetsk Oblast ‎ →‎Administrative divisions thank
01:59, 22 February 2023 diff hist −390‎ Donetsk Oblast ‎ →‎Administrative divisions: unsourced OR thank
01:55, 22 February 2023 diff hist 0‎ Donetsk Oblast ‎No edit summary thank
01:54, 22 February 2023 diff hist −178‎ Donetsk Oblast ‎ Restored revision 1140590713 by Yezheha (talk): NPOV thank Tags: Twinkle Undo
21 February 2023
13:44, 21 February 2023 diff hist −366‎ User talk:Volunteer Marek ‎ Restored revision 1139419430 by Ealdgyth (talk) thank Tags: Twinkle Undo
05:26, 21 February 2023 diff hist −116‎ Pope Pius XII ‎ →‎Widening conflict: can't use this as source. Leave text with cn in for now thank
05:25, 21 February 2023 diff hist −437‎ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn ‎ →‎On Russia and the Jews: can't use this as a source current thank [rollback] [vandalism]
05:24, 21 February 2023 diff hist −22‎ Anne Frank ‎ only need secondary source, no need to link to JHR thank
05:23, 21 February 2023 diff hist −227‎ Anne Frank ‎ →‎Bibliography: nope nope nope thank
20 February 2023
23:26, 20 February 2023 diff hist +7‎ Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard ‎ →‎Blue Police in Poland: banned thank
06:26, 20 February 2023 diff hist −191‎ Rape during the occupation of Japan ‎ nope current thank [rollback] [vandalism]
19 February 2023
19:06, 19 February 2023 diff hist +1,857‎ Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case ‎ →‎Statement by Volunteer Marek thank
18:55, 19 February 2023 diff hist −2,097‎ Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case ‎ →‎Statement by Volunteer Marek: rmv some comments which are now moot thank
18 February 2023
.....
17:32, 17 February 2023 diff hist +9‎ Talk:The Holocaust ‎ →‎Wikipedia biased thank
17:32, 17 February 2023 diff hist +406‎ Talk:The Holocaust ‎ →‎Wikipedia biased thank
....
14:32, 15 February 2023 diff hist +907‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎Karski and Pilecki reports thank
08:53, 15 February 2023 diff hist +686‎ User talk:Paul Siebert ‎ →‎Glaukopis thank
08:39, 15 February 2023 diff hist +6‎ User talk:Paul Siebert ‎ →‎Glaukopis thank
08:39, 15 February 2023 diff hist +1,684‎ User talk:Paul Siebert ‎ →‎Glaukopis: new section thank
....

18:51, 14 February 2023 diff hist 0‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎3 million non-Jewish Polish victims thank
18:51, 14 February 2023 diff hist 0‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎3 million non-Jewish Polish victims thank
18:49, 14 February 2023 diff hist +1,731‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎3 million non-Jewish Polish victims thank
18:29, 14 February 2023 diff hist +364‎ Talk:World War II casualties of Poland ‎ →‎3.0 million ethnic Poles and 3.0 million Jews thank
18:27, 14 February 2023 diff hist +464‎ Talk:World War II casualties of Poland ‎ →‎3.0 million ethnic Poles and 3.0 million Jews thank
18:27, 14 February 2023 diff hist −77‎ World War II casualties of Poland ‎ I don't think this is summarizing anything in the article current thank [rollback] [vandalism]
.....
17:00, 13 February 2023 diff hist +336‎ Talk:The Holocaust in Poland ‎ →‎'Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust' thank
16:38, 13 February 2023 diff hist +2‎ Talk:The Holocaust in Poland ‎ →‎'Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust' thank
16:38, 13 February 2023 diff hist +1,023‎ Talk:The Holocaust in Poland ‎ →‎'Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust' thank
16:33, 13 February 2023 diff hist +510‎ Talk:The Holocaust in Poland ‎ →‎'Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust' thank
16:30, 13 February 2023 diff hist −3‎ Talk:The Holocaust in Poland ‎ →‎'Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust' thank
16:30, 13 February 2023 diff hist +543‎ Talk:The Holocaust in Poland ‎ →‎'Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust' thank
16:28, 13 February 2023 diff hist +330‎ Talk:The Holocaust in Poland ‎ →‎'Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust' thank
16:26, 13 February 2023 diff hist +750‎ Talk:The Holocaust in Poland ‎ →‎'Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust' thank
16:23, 13 February 2023 diff hist +592‎ Talk:The Holocaust in Poland ‎ →‎'Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust' thank
15:46, 13 February 2023 diff hist +54‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎3 million non-Jewish Polish victims thank
15:45, 13 February 2023 diff hist +1,408‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎3 million non-Jewish Polish victims thank
15:38, 13 February 2023 diff hist +676‎ Talk:The Holocaust in Poland ‎ →‎'Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust' thank
13:32, 13 February 2023 diff hist −2,523‎ Roman Shukhevych ‎ Restored revision 1139120130 by GizzyCatBella (talk) thank Tags: Twinkle Undo Reverted
13:22, 13 February 2023 diff hist +372‎ Talk:Annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation ‎ →‎Name of the Ukrainian Revolution of 2014 ('Revolution of Dignity' or '2014 Ukrainian Revolution'?) thank
13:19, 13 February 2023 diff hist +253‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎Denunciation thank
13:19, 13 February 2023 diff hist +259‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎Death penalty for Poles aiding Jews thank
13:19, 13 February 2023 diff hist +281‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎Polish collaboration with the Germans thank
13:18, 13 February 2023 diff hist +930‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎The number of Polish victims killed for aiding Jews thank
12:54, 13 February 2023 diff hist +278‎ User talk:Callanecc ‎ →‎Volunteer Marek thank
12:53, 13 February 2023 diff hist +7‎ Talk:Battle of Bakhmut ‎No edit summary thank
04:01, 13 February 2023 diff hist +228‎ Mikhail Tolstykh ‎ + additional sources thank
03:58, 13 February 2023 diff hist +43‎ Mikhail Tolstykh ‎No edit summary thank
01:33, 13 February 2023 diff hist +1,285‎ Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF) ‎ →‎Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust thank
00:45, 13 February 2023 diff hist +794‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎3 million non-Jewish Polish victims thank
00:35, 13 February 2023 diff hist +625‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎3 million non-Jewish Polish victims thank
00:28, 13 February 2023 diff hist +372‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎3 million non-Jewish Polish victims thank
00:25, 13 February 2023 diff hist +9‎ Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF) ‎ →‎Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust: apparently can't link directly to the page but can scroll to it thank
00:23, 13 February 2023 diff hist +1,212‎ Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF) ‎ →‎Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust thank
00:14, 13 February 2023 diff hist +581‎ Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF) ‎ →‎Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust thank
00:11, 13 February 2023 diff hist +720‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎3 million non-Jewish Polish victims thank
00:05, 13 February 2023 diff hist +363‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎My comments on the objections made by Grabowski and Klein to this article thank
00:04, 13 February 2023 diff hist +333‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎3 million non-Jewish Polish victims thank
12 February 2023
23:59, 12 February 2023 diff hist +764‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎3 million non-Jewish Polish victims thank
23:55, 12 February 2023 diff hist +149‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎My comments on the objections made by Grabowski and Klein to this article thank
23:54, 12 February 2023 diff hist +235‎ Talk:Rescue of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust ‎ →‎3 million non-Jewish Polish victims thank


And here is Marcelus another single minded editor with a conflict of interest;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:C ... s/Marcelus

Where is the WMF? Crickets..
Wikipedia - "Barely competent and paranoid. There’s a hell of a combination."

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wexter
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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Sun Feb 26, 2023 2:53 pm

Relating to the main-point of "Eastern European Warfare" "there is a parallel" in Jess Wade - she owns a topic, creates false-narrative, breaks Wikipedia's rules, and spreads propaganda. I mention this here because this thread "Eastern European Warfare" is simply illustrative. Everything on this blog is related and can be organized to provide an overview.

Narratives are not equal to facts (which you would find in an encyclopedia). Both narratives (propaganda) seek to falsely-elevate the "societal or historical worth" of a group of people.

Nobody (and no system exists) to curate or vette information to a standard; there are no controls over content beyond the determination of individuals that might have an agenda.

https://wikipediasucks.co/forum/viewtop ... ade#p21912
NO she is not on a mission of any kind.
NO you cannot drive fact through narrative.
Being on a mission to represent women scientists on Wikipedia does not create more women scientists; it does have the result of adding insignificant scientists that happen to be women to Wikipedia.
https://wikipediasucks.co/forum/viewtop ... 301#p24301
Wikipedia - "Barely competent and paranoid. There’s a hell of a combination."

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Re: Eastern European Warfare

Post by wexter » Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:03 pm

Consistent with the observations of this thread two articles cited below speak to a systemic concern of which "European Warfare is Illustrative."

February 2023
https://whowhatwhy.org/culture/why-we-s ... wikipedia/
https://whowhatwhy.org/culture/how-easy ... eputation/

Without making a judgement regarding "Russ Baker," one way or the other, there are some critical thinking points which echo our prior observations on this blog almost verbatim. Here is a list of critical thinking points about Wikipedia devoid of "Russ Baker" and/or his narrative. The facts below are simply facts - they are all facts we on this blog have mentioned but gain little traction in the press;

1) "when you want to know something, you Google it. Invariably, at or near the top of the results, is a Wikipedia finding with your answer"

2) The "editors are relentless about creating ... perceptions ... and they are experts at it"

3) People outside of Wikipedia are "powerless to correct false or slanted information"

4) "nobody is minding the store to make sure that we don’t end up in some type of artificial informational construct"

5) " edits" can "conform to a subjective agenda instead of reality"

6) " it would take a relentless, inhuman vigilance to battle those persistent and tidal forces bent on controlling the narrative…"

7) "Wikipedia claims to be self-correcting by an army of volunteers, yet errors abound on the most basic facts"

8) "the complete omission of critical facts while including many details of far less importance that can affect whether the reader reacts positively or negatively" - Issue framing and control of the narrative
Wikipedia - "Barely competent and paranoid. There’s a hell of a combination."

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