Fram

[CrowsNest]

The problem is in that someone might be banned without even getting to tell their side. The truly unacceptable part to this, aside from it being a massive overreach to begin with, is that the person accused of wrongdoing isn't even told who accused them of what, to give them an opportunity to deny that, put it in context, tell their side of the story, whatever have you. That is absolutely antithetical to how we do things here. ..... Seraphimblade Talk to me 03:13, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Absolutely antithetical? Are you sure? Why don't you go check your records? You will find the details in the filing cabinet with the padlock, behind the locker door, in the basement marked on your map as "ArbCom's" secret bunker."

I'm tickled at the thought some of these idiots might actual genuinely believe this bullshit being shoveled by the Separatists. It might actually properly break them to learn the truth of how their precious community really works.

[CrowsNest]

As we critics always knew, ArbCom is already very much like a sovereign government when it comes to satisfying the people......

I'm sorry, Seraphimblade, but these things do take time. There was a lot to go through, on top of Arbcom's usual business (we have 2 cases live at the moment on top of everything going on here and A/R/C, and a significantly reduced committee). I understand your frustration, but there's little any of us can tell you at the moment. WormTT(talk) 19:15, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Arbcom is slow. We always have been, by design. Needless to say, we aren't ignoring the situation, and of course we care about the health of the community. Do you see a magic bullet that will make this all better? I don't. WormTT(talk) 19:21, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

[CrowsNest]

Oh, the mannittee!!!

No one is replaceable, except in corporate groupthink. Any editor here knows that innumerable articles would not have been written to the comprehensive level of excellence and expertise they display, were it not for dedication of an individual or two who drove them forward to FA status.Nishidani (talk) 20:58, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Innumerable? Retard.

There are 5,556 featured articles out of 5,878,550 articles on the English Wikipedia

-Wikipedia

The corporate groupthink here is obviously that the pervasive toxic atmosphere is responsible for this paltry ratio of quality over quantity (0.1%!), because non-assholes cannot stand to be around the community for long enough to reach the stage they can actually write Featured Content (which is itself merely what Brittanica would call 'publishable', and that assumes the criteria have been met, which to a professional encyclopedist's eye, they often haven't been).

A quick scan of the list of people who actually have created lots of Featured Content for English Wikipedia, suggests that it is actually only a task that appeals to assholes, or those with other serious personality defects that inhibit their ability to work with others. Why? Because FAC is not so much an exercise in peer review, as it is a hazing by a fraternity. You either accept Eric Corbett is omnipotent, or you face the consequences. Getting your head flushed down the toilet being at the mild end.

Voice of the Separatists Iridescent thinks differently, defending as he does the vile Eric Corbett as a model Wikipedian. Who is right? We know who is right. Readers of Wikipedia don't give a flying toss about the niche crap he writes, and certainly nobody wants to link the value they place on Wikipedia to the paltry efforts of these lesser lights of humanity.

Shakespeare wrote Hamlet, sure. Iridescent wrote "Droxford railway station". Eric Corbett wrote "Gropecunt Lane", basically just to get under the skin of people who think he's a disgusting little shit.

This line of objection as the supposed damaging consequences of FramBan is all very hilarious anyway, because for all Fram was a problem Administrator, for his attitude of holding enforcement of the rules above social status, some of his biggest critics actually come from the Elite Content Squad. The people with the social status to literally their own rules.

[CrowsNest]

What shade of pure shite is this?

.....I also note the very disturbing statement from Jan on Friday that Foundation bans are non-appealable, which would imply that decisions are final and cannot be changed, ever, even if T&S is proved wrong later. ..... --Rschen7754 21:03, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

I repeat, you cannot negotiate with fruit loops like this.

WMF bans are non-appealable in the sense they cannot be appealed by the banned individual, obviously. If, by some miracle, it later emerged that there was a fundamental error in process the WMF used to arrive to that ban, it would be overturned.

Since this is all a corporate affair, by what mechanism such errors might be revealed, is entirely a matter for the WMF, or rather the Board. The community or their representatives can advise, but that has to be the limit of their input, unless they start to put real skin in the game and change their legal status.

To believe the WMF would not rescind the ban on such circumstances, even if the evidence of an injustice was coming from an external source like the community, is to believe they are more interested in not being seen as wrong as they are interested in fair treatment of volunteers.

And with an epically bad faith mindset like that, we come back to the basic question, why would you ever even sit down with people like that, people you're meant to believe are in common cause with you as regards the Holy Mission of Free Knowledge?

The capacity for fresh evidence to trigger an external review is crucial in any good governance. The WMF has such mechanisms in areas like the privacy policy. The community itself? Not so much. The community is the place where appeals of ArbCom bans, are still heard by ArbCom. They are literally that clueless about the inequity of their own self-government.

[CrowsNest]

Unsurprisingly, having ruled out forking as impractical, and demured on a general strike or mass walkout as too much like Cold Turkey, the Rebellion has determined the "next steps" should be to HARASS THE LIVING SHIT OUT OF WMF EMPLOYEES .....

So far as next steps go, I did have a concrete proposal in mind. It has the additional advantage that it will take some time before any action is actually taken, so if it's true that this could still be worked out, that can be done. My proposal would, first, be to use the above ideas of a sitenotice to communicate the intent to put pressure on the WMF. Every editor who has participated in this discussion will be invited as well. On a specified date, the editors who agree to the proposal will begin to report every violation of the terms of use to Trust & Safety. And a lot of things are: Vandalism is against the TOU. Copyright violations are against the TOU. BLP violations, spamming/advertising, suspected undisclosed paid editing, block or ban evasion? All a TOU violation. Send them a report each and every time one of those things happens. Even if it's already been handled by someone not participating, make sure they get a report, so T&S can make sure the rubes didn't screw it up. I say we let T&S handle all of it, and see just how much work the volunteers who have kept this project running for nearly two decades deal with every day. If they think they can do it better than we do, let's send them a message: Prove it. Seraphimblade Talk to me 02:26, 24 June 2019 (UTC)

Hilarious. I mean, do I even need to be spending my time criticizing this stuff? The Separatists seem to be doing a fine job of persuading the WMF they were right all along, the English Wikipedia community is out of control.

If your only response to the WMF enforcing the ToU in a way you don't like is to straight up violate the ToU in response. Obviously this would be an indisputable case of a coordinated harassment campaign, but it would also amusingly violate this term......

Disrupting the services by inundating any of the Project websites with communications or other traffic that suggests no serious intent to use the Project website for its stated purpose;

......and the proof will be there in the community written and approved wording of this proposal.

I say the WMF issues a clear and direct statement.......

If the volunteers of the English Wikipedia community engage in open rebellion against the Foundation in a way that violates the Terms of Use and otherwise harms the capability of the Foundation to perform its legally required duties, it will immediately and indefinitely place the English Wikipedia website into read only mode, and this will be done by reactivating the Super-Protect user right. Volunteer privileges to edit the site will be returned as and when such a threat is deemed to no longer exist. There will be no further warnings.

The WMF doesn't like bad publicity, but it cannot be seriously suggested that bad publicity alone has ever stopped them doing what they believed was absolutely necessary to ensure their survival.

Time to call some people's bluff. Time to start making sure that the only way this rebellion succeeds, is if people actually in the paid employment of the WMF, decide that they want to take a stand, and start breaking shit.

Every volunteer is eminently replaceable, especially if their retention would otherwise affect the primary goals of the Movement, even when the cost/benefit is measured on a time frame of years. If you truly don't know that, what cult did you think you were joining?

I mean, fuuuuuck. Do you want me to actually list all the names of the long departed (forcibly or otherwise) volunteers who were previously thought to be indispensable to en.wiki?

Do you stupid bastards know anything at all about the true nature of the community you inhabit?

THE DARKNESS IS WITHIN YOU.

Always has been. The WMF is just the mechanism by which it is exploited for monetary gain.

HTD.

[CrowsNest]

I think it is time for serious Wikipedia true believers to admit that the project as we knew it is dead. The bureaucrats win. Money and careerism can steamroll volunteerism every time, especially when 1/3 of the Wikipedia community are either already on the pad or want to be so much that they can't roll over and show their bellies fast enough.

Be careful of what you wish for, WMF, you may certainly get it.

Hate to break it to you Timmy, the WMF doesn't care whether you stay or go (both in general, but also you specifically), and they certainly wouldn't care about any threat you might leave, once they realized how addicted you are. You're never leaving.

They just about barely acknowledge the existence of the "true" community's chosen leaders like Iridescent, and only then to piss on him. And I think we all know you're not him, and never will be. You're so desperate to be pissed on, you yank at poor old Jimmy's skirts incessantly. And all you get for your efforts is the occasional swatting aside, like you're an annoying puppy.

But hey, Mr. "True Believer" in your funeral garb....when did you ever actually have power or status within the cult? To have lost it, as implied here, you surely must have previously had it, no? Just as the WMF has done, the "true" volunteers don't seem to take much notice of you at all, certainly not as anything other than a single worthless individual. Ignorable, replaceable, expendable. Not leadership material. If they did, they would already be storming the battlements, inspired by your repeated rallying cries, no?

NOW IS THE TIME. FREEEEEDDDOOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!!!1

Yeah? Whatever you say dude. Now, people, where are we on Operation Harass Them? Thoughts, Iridiscent?

Muppet.

[CrowsNest]

This is the result of not having a fair number of renegade assholes on the committee. Everybody is so smarmy-nice-kissy-kiss. Why can't we all get along? We all like money! We all want nice careers!

Hey, Crow, you might wonder why I push highly imperfect douches like Drmies for Arbcom. THIS is why...

Um, I never had any doubt your desire was to see more renegade assholes on the Committee.

Just as I had no doubt you did not foresee something like a FramBan as the inevitable consequence.

What's the plan now, Little Che?

Your pick for Renegade In Chief, the mighty Opabina, you're only now seeing that she wasn't so much a renegade against the WMF, as she was an asshole to her own community. She is saying and doing nothing to assert the community's perceived rights now, because she has no legitimacy in that regard.

She got reelected by lying to the community, telling them she had reflected on her first term, where she was openly denying WP:CIV even existed as a policy, and had "slowly moved toward a firmer approach with repeated disruption." Fram was a perfect example of repeated disruption, a man hiding behind his community granted trust to unambiguously breach WP:CIV and WP:ADMIN, and yes, WP:HARASS. Presented with the opportunity to do her fucking job, she passed. Not just once, but repeatedly.

She emboldened Fram, and not even because he was supposedly finally acknowledging community concerns and working to improve, his tirade against ArbCom finally busting that myth.

Now The Feds are sitting across from her in the interview room looking for answers, a comprehensive set of complaints in their hand about what Fram has done with his freedoms to police Wikipedians how he saw fit, she's clearly got none. Was she representing the best interests of the community? Was she upholding the minimum standards of the WMF? On what policy basis was she doing what she did?

The Feds, after a deep dive into her record, will be having no difficulty determining that she was doing what she has always done - what an asshole renegade always does. Whatever. The. Fuck. She. Wanted.

But ultimately, when it comes to renegading against the WMF, she likes the status and the power as much as any of your worst people. Always a political animal, she's carefully giving out the signals that she is on your side working in your interest in this grave matter, but in reality, she is merely covering her own ass.

She will not be saying or doing anything to imperil her undeserved perch at the top of your very small hill. The Feds have told her to keep her damn mouth shut and not tell any of you what you want to know, and so she is keeping it shut. She will let you know in her own sweet time, when you have finally lost. In the mean time, she is busy with her work on the other two cases on the docket, thank you very much. HA HA HAA HA, what a bunch of suckers you all are.

As I said at the time, if you didn't want this person to be your representative, a reflection of your true selves, you should not have voted for her. If you hadn't done your due diligence and figured out what she was really all about, well, sorry dude, Wikipedia operates on the principle of buyer beware. In every respect, as it happens.

Get better leaders. And appreciate that in certain matters, even the best leaders cannot achieve the impossible. The best ones won't give you false hope that this was even a possibility.

You want true independence from the WMF, then dump the Corporate Bishonen, and go with the actual Bishonen. Assuming she can get enough people to sacrifice themselves for her, you might just reach the promised land of autonomy and self-rule. You'll have no more rights under her than you do now, indeed most likely quite a few less, but you will be 'free'. The temporary military government adopted to facilitate and finalize the separation, will of course be retained indefinitely, to protect you against any and all future threats to your sacred birthrights.

Mugs.

[CrowsNest]

I'm sorry dudes, but you're claiming this is evidence of a popular revolt?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ed_strikes

You really don't know the history of your own cult, do you? I've seen a more intense reaction over the proposed new colour of your cubicle walls. I will remind you, the claim here is that your sovereignty is being trampled on, your inalienable rights torn up. If this is genuinely the majority view, not the ravings of a fringe group of separatists, you could at least, y'know, act like it.

Popular revolutions require just two things, the clue being in the name.

The resignation of Dennis Brown is emblematic of this revolution. He's left Wikipedia before, ostensibly in protest at it becoming more about politics than encyclopedia writing (a clear rejection of the desire to diversify the user base and by extension, the content). He eventually came back, and as it turned out his departure probably had more to do with him not having a lot of time for hobbies because his real life was falling apart (and we can surmise this was because of his addiction to Wikipedia). He is not a principled man. He's been caught many times lying, abusing his powers, and otherwise not upholding the required standards of an Administrator. His response has always been the same. Contempt. It is no accident that these sort of people are the ones who now sympathize with Fram, or more likely, fear they will be next.

[Graaf Statler]

I went often to Shakespeare performances but this is one of the poorest I have ever seen.
Romaine head is now cut off by a French nymph, Fram stabbed by Jan in black clothes with Drakula teeth but he is still alive, only wounded by the SanFan dangerous weapon. The dead bodies of Abd and Statler are on the background who are taking revenge from the underworld, and all the brave sysop soldiers are now killed and falling one by one. A fantastic cliff hanger!

The slot act will be a hard one. I am thinking about this on:
Jmmy kills Doc James with a sword who is trying to safe Frams his digital life and commits suicide. And Drmies flee together with Katherine in the new bought privet jet of WMF the Trollopedia to Honolulu, and land safe there where James Alexander is already waiting for them.
And the three of them are living there a long and happy from the money what is still left after Abd and Statler have gripped the most of it, and Drmies and Katherine get 12 children. They have been always secret lovers. Children who are born with a golden spoon in there mouth, because there are still donors who believe in the mission and donate generous.

It is bizar!

[CrowsNest]

Oh definitely, if anyone would be able to buy their way onto Katherine's jet to flee the End Times, it's Drmies. Never has denied being a paid editor.