"Fram Gate" in Arbcom

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by CrowsNest » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:27 pm

Uh Oh....

WHO DIS?
Everyone loses his or her temper sometimes, and also, many people sometimes uses strong language for effect, such as for emphasis. Isolated instances of impoliteness, even from administrators, do not call for sanctions..........the cumulative evidence indicates that DangerousPanda is unduly prone to losing his temper at contributors, that he's done it over a long period of time, and perhaps most concerning, that he's continued to do it after saying he'd stop. I've carefully considered his assurance on the talkpage that now he gets it and now he'll stop, and that is commendable, but this has gone on long enough that I still have to support the finding. Newyorkbrad (talk) 16:38, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
You can never make direct comparisons, but while Fram's incivility typically tends to be less vulgar than the Panda ever was, the intent is the same - fuck you, you're wrong. Just like Fram, the Panda had a nasty habit of ignoring feedback from his peers, because he thought it was all mistaken or a conspiracy, and just like Fram, he only really had his revelation that he needed to change, when shit got real. And unlike the Panda, who didn't get his chance to demonstrate personal growth, we already know what Fram considers an improvement. Basically, improved Fram, when he's pissed or pursuing a target, isn't much different to the Panda at his worst.

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by CrowsNest » Wed Aug 28, 2019 1:41 pm

How strange it is that no Arbitrator, or even an Administrator, has seen fit to remove the "speculation" posted on this case. It's not exactly hidden, the talk page header is literally, "Some speculation", posted rather hilariously by someone seeking to castigate the Foundation for handling Fram in a way that showed "total disregard for Wikipedia policy and procedure and values". Even stranger, the rather obvious fact this user isn't remotely experienced enough to be acting like they are part of the furniture, and the various data points that could indicate this person is at the very least a meat puppet for Fram, hasn't remotely piqued the interest of CSI:SOCK.

Honestly. The shit you can get away with in the en.wiki governance system, as long as you're rooting for the right team.

GO FRAM!

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by CrowsNest » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:26 pm

You should be really proud Vigilant, having absolute scumbags who exist at the heart of the dysfunctional and corrupt Wikipedia governance system, so willing to be your conduit....
I am somewhat reassured that it was an Arb (Worm That Turned) that reversed the attempt to delete that vanished user's talk page. Given that this user is clearly the main issue that was raised by T&S, that a senior member of the WMF has a huge COI in regards to that user, and that their talk page history contains many diffs that show clearly that Fram's conduct was not unreasonable (and indeed that criticism of the vanished user's editing was certainly not limited to Fram, and indeed covered many experienced users), this is obviously the correct decision. Whether it suggests that a reversal of the RTV is logical, is another question. Black Kite (talk) 18:33, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
All so clear and obvious for this scumbag. Sorry, Wikipedia Administrator.

His corruption would be clear and obvious if Wikipediocracy was actually interested in Wikipedia criticism. But alas, like so many of the cult's infamous bad actors, Black Kiite is a slipper wearing pipe smoking member of Wikipediocracy, untroubled by anyone who knows what he is prepared to do, how far he is prepared to go, in the not infrequent situations where his personal agendas conflict with the local policies the community unwisely trust him to faithfully enforce.

Local governance for local people. Policing their own, protecting their own, with Wikipediocracy right there to do the things too horrible even for them.

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by Graaf Statler » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:27 pm

With as highlight our for ever toddler Timmy boy who came by to tell us we both are not blocked because we still can read the complete insane topics in the hidden section. Wikipediocracy is not interested in Wikipedia criticism. Wikipediocracy is a blog to manipulate the 'public opinion' of the wikipedia peeps.
What is even too corrupt and too embarrassing is displayed on Wikipediocracy. And if taht is even too crazy and insane uncle Jake put it in the cellar and yes, yes, yes! There Crow and I may read!

Thank you sóóó much Wikipediocracy for this great gesture, it feels so much better then being blocked. It is sóóó nice we still can read the complet insane ADHD rants of Vigilant. It feels in this way so, how shall I put it, it feels so unblocked.

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by Guido den Broeder » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:01 am

CrowsNest wrote:You should be really proud Vigilant, having absolute scumbags who exist at the heart of the dysfunctional and corrupt Wikipedia governance system, so willing to be your conduit....
I am somewhat reassured that it was an Arb (Worm That Turned) that reversed the attempt to delete that vanished user's talk page. Given that this user is clearly the main issue that was raised by T&S, that a senior member of the WMF has a huge COI in regards to that user, and that their talk page history contains many diffs that show clearly that Fram's conduct was not unreasonable (and indeed that criticism of the vanished user's editing was certainly not limited to Fram, and indeed covered many experienced users), this is obviously the correct decision. Whether it suggests that a reversal of the RTV is logical, is another question. Black Kite (talk) 18:33, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
All so clear and obvious for this scumbag. Sorry, Wikipedia Administrator.

His corruption would be clear and obvious if Wikipediocracy was actually interested in Wikipedia criticism. But alas, like so many of the cult's infamous bad actors, Black Kiite is a slipper wearing pipe smoking member of Wikipediocracy, untroubled by anyone who knows what he is prepared to do, how far he is prepared to go, in the not infrequent situations where his personal agendas conflict with the local policies the community unwisely trust him to faithfully enforce.

Local governance for local people. Policing their own, protecting their own, with Wikipediocracy right there to do the things too horrible even for them.


Weirdly at Wikipediocracy they still think it's all about Laura Hale, despite the stream of information provided by WTT that indicates otherwise.

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by Carrite » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:20 am

Guido den Broeder wrote:
CrowsNest wrote:You should be really proud Vigilant, having absolute scumbags who exist at the heart of the dysfunctional and corrupt Wikipedia governance system, so willing to be your conduit....
I am somewhat reassured that it was an Arb (Worm That Turned) that reversed the attempt to delete that vanished user's talk page. Given that this user is clearly the main issue that was raised by T&S, that a senior member of the WMF has a huge COI in regards to that user, and that their talk page history contains many diffs that show clearly that Fram's conduct was not unreasonable (and indeed that criticism of the vanished user's editing was certainly not limited to Fram, and indeed covered many experienced users), this is obviously the correct decision. Whether it suggests that a reversal of the RTV is logical, is another question. Black Kite (talk) 18:33, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
All so clear and obvious for this scumbag. Sorry, Wikipedia Administrator.

His corruption would be clear and obvious if Wikipediocracy was actually interested in Wikipedia criticism. But alas, like so many of the cult's infamous bad actors, Black Kiite is a slipper wearing pipe smoking member of Wikipediocracy, untroubled by anyone who knows what he is prepared to do, how far he is prepared to go, in the not infrequent situations where his personal agendas conflict with the local policies the community unwisely trust him to faithfully enforce.

Local governance for local people. Policing their own, protecting their own, with Wikipediocracy right there to do the things too horrible even for them.


Weirdly at Wikipediocracy they still think it's all about Laura Hale, despite the stream of information provided by WTT that indicates otherwise.


What is your alternative theory? It looks more and more like Laura Hale and a backstage canvas to astroturf support for her to me... Who else's ox did Fram gore? He's not even in the Top 10 of uncivil Wikipedians... Why him then?

RfB

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by CrowsNest » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:35 am

Carrite wrote:What is your alternative theory?
What's wrong with the official one? After a detailed investigation en.wiki was found to be failing in its duty to enforce minimal standards of expected behaviour as described by the Terms ("harassment") and their own local policies (WP:HARASS), so the Foundation exercised their right in local policy (WP:OFFICE) and the Terms (12. Termination) to ban him, partly to stop the specific problem and partly to send a message to en.wiki volunteers (i.e. you) to get their shit together, and extremely generously didn't apply a full global ban, in light of his service and because the issues were only affecting en.wiki.

Seriously, try and pick a single hole in that. You can't. All you've got is this fantasy that somehow en.wiki is an independent sovereign website and the Foundation's only role in its governance is to be granted the honour of being allowed by the likes of you to deal with the pedophiles and violent offenders on your behalf. Y'know, like Kumioko.
Carrite wrote:Who else's ox did Fram gore?
If that's a genuine question, you're only revealing you lack the knowledge to even be commenting on this issue.
Carrite wrote:He's not even in the Top 10 of uncivil Wikipedians
Adjusting for the higher standard applied to Administrators, he is. Can you name ten worse? Don't be afraid, you're protected from any revenge beatings by the en.wiki governance system. It always protects users and effectively deals with Administrators guilty of misconduct. Like Fram. Oh no, wait....... :?

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by CrowsNest » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:31 am

Is there a mouse hair's difference between how the Wikipedia volunteers and their Wikipediocracy cousins reacted to Yamla's deletion of Laura's talk page?

Both have harassment as a default, and frankly evil, baked right into them. The reason is the same in both - weak ass leadership.

Let the woman vanish. Give her her dignity back. You're just making shit up to justify your disgusting behaviour now - hiding evidence?

You're never going to get what you want (autonomous self-government), if you keep denying what the en.wiki governance system actually is as of right now (and for as long as I can remember). You may not like it now, but 'evidence' has never been considered public property on Wikipedia. Deleting a page doesn't hide it from those people elected by you to handle your governance cases with harassment components. It doesn't even hide it from responsible Administrators who can be trusted to email it to ArbCom if they can be persuaded by a trustworthy user that it is pertinent.

If you can't figure out who did what from the outset because not all the evidence is public, then hey, welcome to Wikipedia. If you have genuinely changed your mind about this culture of secrecy in your governance system, then let everyone see the ArbCom mailing list and internal wiki content that pertains to their role in Framban, specifically what they did and didn't say or do to prevent it. We'll be here, waiting for you fuckers to learn that transparency is a two way street.

What deletion does do, and is designed to do, is prevent harassment sites like Wikipediocracy from engaging further in their favourite activity - beating up women - although their friendly relations with Wikipedia Administrators with misconduct on their record and an openly stated desire to see these women get what they deserve for what they "clearly" did, people like Black Kite, indeed him specifically, probably means even ordinary deletion isn't enough to prevent their harassment. You should have really fixed that problem by now, if you want women to stop being afraid of your community.

It's no accident at all that the other women in this case has now become a Wikipediocracy target too. Watch the Wikipedians, high born and low, stand around and do nothing, while their own Administrators find common cause in that too, happily publishing on en.wiki whatever dirt they are handed, just to, y'know, ask the question. Black Kite asked the question a few weeks back. Said he was satisfied with the answer. No corruption. No collusion. Now he is not. What changed in the mean time? Nothing that I can see. What has never changed, is his assuredness that the en.wiki community doesn't have any intention to prevent harassment, to prevent people like him, their own goddamned Administrators, being vile scum.

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by CrowsNest » Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:21 am

So by my count that's Black Kite, Mendaliv and Jbhunley all recently trying to push Vigilant's conspiracy theory on Wikipedia, directly on the case pages, while simultaneously posting their encouragement of his worst excesses on the harassment site Wikipediocracy. Two of those people are Wikipedia Administrators, while the third fancies himself as an even higher authority, someone who should be fast-tracked to ArbCom as Chair Fuckwittus. All under Administrator and former Arbitrator NewYorkBrad's nose, also an active member of that forum, who has conveniently posted a comprehensive clearing of Fram and shooing of the Foundation as his proposed decision, something he came up with after a mere few hours deliberating on all the evidence.

Come on people. Independent platform? Who are they kidding? If conspiracy theories are de rigour, what does all this suggest to someone who wants to see such things?

Fram claims he has never posted on Wikipediocracy, but can we seriously believe there is not even a chance he isn't already, as Vigilant himself? It would be difficult to maintain that pretence for years on end, sure, but if the prize is to plausibly be able to wage war against the WMF on two fronts, who wouldn't be tempted? If not the same person, how about two long term collaborators? Stranger things have happened, in the world of wiki. Both have shown signs of the strain such a thing must induce, Vigilant having his long period in the priory (be it the actual clinic or a literal monastery), Fram having his May 2019 meltdowns, where his inner Vigilant escaped for a while.

I'm not being totally serious of course, just showing what can be done by someone who knows the power of a conspiracy theory, and has no qualms about using it to frighten and confuse the villagers, and cause difficulties for the local law. Me, I have a reputation to uphold, this shit is frankly beneath me. I would be quite out of place on Wikipedia and Wikipediocracy, with all my facts and principles and shit.

I don't need to appeal to people's innate fear of a conspiracy to persuade them what's really happening here. Wikipediocracy is not a Wikipedia criticism site, it's a hangout for Wikipedians who feel far too constrained by Wikipedia's already completely hollowed out rules against harassment, and far too uncomfortable at the WMFs laubible attempts to bring their projects into the 21st Century. Diverse, inclusive, respectful. Everything the traditionalists like Fram hate. They lose their mind even though all the world has actually seen so far as a result of those efforts, is tokenism and PR parlour tricks.

Wikipediocracy is a place for the Dennis Brown's and Ritchie333's and Black Kite's of this world, the frightened middle age white western techbros who just came to Wikipedia to escape their miserable lives, not fix the world, and somehow managed to become Administrators despite their obvious unsuitability. And a bunch of them too scared to even tell us their Wikipedia user names. All cosetted by the Wikipediocracy leadership, like it's some kind of rest home for their weary bones. Shit, they're even down with Eric Corbett spewing his bile on their forum, but Vigilant's unhappiness at being outshone rather makes it a combustible affair when he does. Eric is moderated there about as well as that horrible bastard is moderated on Wikipedia. Same motives, same outcomes.

While they happily squabble over minutia to pass the time, just like they do on Wikipedia, on the big issues, the two sites operate hand in glove toward their common goals - the complete and total nullification of any external attempt to reign in the corrupt and immoral practices that have become the norm of en.wiki governance. The things that have made the en.wiki governance system a haven for those who like to bully, harass, intimidate, and generally expect others to hold themselves to standards they either don't want or never could hold themselves to.

You can retract Laura's name as a kindness, and maybe they'll even let that go as a minor loss. But you know they're just going to internalize their unhappiness at your silly ideas and unleash the evil within, some other way.

You can't stop these people undermining your project's supposed goals and values, and therefore the ultimate mission, until you actually get serious about harassment. That starts with calling what Fram did to multiple people from his position of undeserved power, what it actually was - WP:HARASSment. Your policy, your responsibility, your dropped ball that the Foundation attempted to pick back up, in the process clearly not realizing just how deep the rot has set in.

They have their own mission now, and have done for a long time. Wikipedia for the Wikipedians. Turn back the clock and Make Wikipedia Great Again. Back to a time when Eric Corbett could call women editors and your own goddamned Leader cunts if he wanted, and editors literally had to post crudely photoshopped porn of their women enemies before your elders stood back and wondered to themselves, hmm, I think this dude might actually being trying to harass her off Wikipedia, thereby winning this case by default.

You can be with them or against them. Stand on the sidelines, your head stuck in your colouring book, or dithering with some lame ass attempt at a compromise, well, you might just get hit by a stray bullet.

You've tried all the compromises. You gave them every chance. It has achieved nothing. Women In Red is nothing but an enclave, a project within a project, and when the Fraministas realize it is basically a sham, a parallel community intent on usurping their birthright to govern Wikipedia for eternity, they're going to kill it. Easy to do to, since they have adopted the strategy of using what they see works. Forgetting the golden rule - on Wikipedia, the women can never get to win.

Fram even beat on Gorilla Warfare back in the day, and she's the one who is now having to make nice with him, apologising for getting her blood on his boots. Oh to be a man like Eric Corbett and Black Kite, where you get to react to such blocks with all the sound and fury your affronted testes demand. Sure, she may be playing the long game here, but really, justice being achieved on glacial timescales, is no justice at all. As tempting as it might be to see this is as a struggle on the same timescale as civil rights in general, it really isn't.

As "one of their best" Administrators (an old white western dude of course) said at the time......
This is a situation that calls for de-escalation, and instead, you have chosen to escalate, Fram. Please ponder why. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 05:59, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
Another popular guy with the Wikipediocrats for how he Administrates. Seems to have gone missing in this ultimate exercise in asking the question, did Fram ever "ponder", or has he always been the guy who reacted to that simple request the same way he has reacted to this entire case? Namely with verbosity, argumentativeness, wikilawyering, and with no hint of irony, complete and total escalation.

In his rush to clear Fram, Brad of course didn't see the nuance in that incident, the stuff that shows Fram's inherent unsuitabity for the role, the things about him that could absolutely lead an unbiased observer to conclude he is what people say he is, not what Brad wants to paint him as. Nope, all he apparently saw was what Fram saw himself, unbiased observer that he is. A bad block quickly undone. No harm, no foul. No pattern to speak of, nothing to see at all really.

Who knows, maybe Cullen is one of the people who went over everyone's head to T&S? Think he wouldn't do that? Really? The guy who thinks he's better than Jimmy Wales, who thought nothing of spitting in Jimmy's face in response to an entirely legitimate warning, and gleefully accepted the rankerous applause of the community for it. Not hard to see why Jimmy seems to think he better start kissing their butts now. Pointless to keep reminding these people what he thought being an Administrator was all about. Their house, their rules. True autonomy.

Brad clears Eric, Eric beats on Jimmy, Bishonen beats on Jimmy, Bishonen dares everyone to report her to Brad, Fram beats on everyone but Eric, Gorilla Warfare rebukes Eric, everyone beats on Gorilla Warfare, Jimmy blocks Bishonen, everyone pisses on Jimmy, Opabina lies to protect Eric, everyone celebrates Opabina, Cullen protects Drmies who protects Bbb23 who protects Dennis Brown who protects Eric, and everyone loves Cullen. Cassianto beats on everyone, Bishonen protects Cassianto. Sitush insults everyone. Bishonen protects Sitush. Malik Shabbaz is not a psychopath, he is a victim. By Order of Opabina, on behalf of Drmies. Black Kite protects Eric, Brad shields Black Kite. Black Kite lies to Opabina to protect BetaCommand, Opabina pretends not to notice.

I could go on.

The patterns are clear and obvious. You can be a powerful woman on Wikipedia, as long as you don't diverge from what the powerful men have shown you, through their brute force displays of aggression and their sausage fest domination of the Arbitration Committee and Administrative ranks, what is and is not acceptable. There can be no civility and respect on Wikipedia, because they value keeping useful assholes around more than preventing assholery.

Assholes at the coal face, assholes in the Administration, assholes literally sitting on your face, expecting you to eat their shit, and screaming loudly at the injustice if you so much as dare to say slow down, I can only eat so much in one mouthful. Institutional tolerance of harassment therefore, is no accident, it's necessary to prevent the inevitable disorder of trying to disturb the natural rhythms of the site, the natural flow of bullshit from the anuses of the powerful to the mouths of the powerless. Stopping harassment on Wikipedia is like saying users only have to eat three mouthfuls of shit to gain their basic human dignity, instead of five.

Warnings like Cullen's are worthless attempts by one asshole to virtue signal to another asshole, for reasons of internal power broking only. They don't mean anything on the wider scale, and certainly don't wash away the real picture you see when it's their conduct being questioned. Does Fram look like the kind of guy who took that warning to heart? Is Brad really on board with the idea Administrators shouldn't be utterly mortified that one of their colleagues could even think that such a warning was necessary, being mindful of it in their every waking hour, and certainly not forgetting it by the time he he was letting loose in May?

Is that really the purpose of his "reminder" in this case? Not so much a virtue signal, as a virtue puff of slightly coloured air in the vague direction of the intended recipients. Drmies has perfected the virtue signalling while being an asshole soft shoe shuffle, so it clearly works as a means to avoid the scrutiny of the less obviously corrupt Arbitrators as they serve their primary role, as the Admin police. So much so he even was one for a short time - by his own admission, only so he could achieve a couple of tasks he apparently couldn't as a mere Administrator. Clearing Malik for duty obviously being one.

So be in no doubt. This is a war you cannot win, believers in an asshole free Wikipedia, it is definitely unfixable that way. But for the sake of everything that is good, it is a war these dinosaurs must not be allowed to win so easily. Make the world think you at least tried to push them back into the shadows with all the other Gamergaters, where they belong.

I am not Vigilant. I don't need to hide my true intentions, I don't need to spread conspiracy theories. I have stated my case, I am here to be challenged, ready and willing to defend any points of fact or arrived at conclusion, should you see an error in my analysis. And yet I do not get challenged, because cowards recognize true strength when they see it, and run a mile from it.

So I say Hasten The Day this all brings the entire thing crashing down on your heads, and we can all forget this silly experiment in letting rank amateurs and assorted miscreants decide what is and is not knowledge.

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by Carrite » Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:57 pm

An entertaining editorial.

Who knows, maybe Cullen is one of the people who went over everyone's head to T&S? Think he wouldn't do that? Really?


Jim is a personal friend of mine and I can say this with authority: No, he would not do this. Really.

RfB

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