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CrowsNest wrote:I'd say Drmies' influence on the opposition is being overplayed
Anyone wrote:Support #64 comes from this moronic-looking cunt:
I believe if you add one to the revision number, you will get the next revision along in the database and hence the date. In these cases it appears to be 28 November 2018 and 29 November 2018. Quite why these edits were not brought up in the ArbCom case (or even during the whole WP:FRAM discussion), I don't know (maybe they were?). I can understand Drmies not wanting to bring it up, but Kirill should know better than to sit on something like this (or had you only just become aware of this?). Though surely there were plenty of people aware of this - why is it only being brought up now? Carcharoth (talk) 16:27, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
Vigilant wrote:I suspect this is going to end about 70% approve
Providing "diffs" that are not visible to anyone but oversighters, while not providing the context is to put mildly, misleading. Alex Shih (talk) 16:35, 26 September 2019 (UTC)
Oppose – Per answer to Question 7. Won't submit to WP:RECALL, and writes "If I would get the tools back, and I act in ways people feel are not becoming for an admin, they can go to the admin noticeboards and arbcom (well, preferably they first contact me about it of course)." This is ironic given Fram's criticism of Arbcom, both before and after their own case that resulted in a desysop (e.g., these comments, including "So it feels as if the only reason for a desysop is to appease the WMF, as if a 100-days ban and an admonishment isn't enough."). (Fram, after all this, you really think that's the "only reason for a desysop"?!). While I agree T&S shouldn't have desysoped, and I agree with much of Fram's criticism of Arbcom, Fram apparently thinks the bit shouldn't be taken away by T&S, or Arbcom, or even by the community! Sorry, that kind of entitlement to the bit a deal-breaker from me. Moreover, the first draft of this RFA, comments at Fram's user page about that drafting, and the answers to questions here, shows to me that Fram "says the right things" only when they have a lot of coaching. When you get "actual Fram", the real Fram, you get expressions of entitlement to the bit and being above reproach. I would still support a future RfA (because Fram has done a lot of good work, and usually shows good judgment, outside of the issues raised here), but from a Fram that has actually, genuinely, taken on board the community's feedback and demonstrated, for a while, that they have changed their behavior accordingly. IMO, the better move would have been for Fram to shut out those editors who wish to use Fram to make a political point, edit productively for a few months without civility incidents, and then run for RfA. In the event this RfA doesn't succeed, I hope Fram does exactly that, and I look forward to supporting the next one (if they're open to recall). (By the way, on Fram's substantive point about recalls: when was the last time an admin on the list was recalled? That's how you know recall won't be abused by disgruntled editors, so there's really no reason not be on that list.) – Levivich 18:03, 26 September 2019 (UTC)