Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by wexter » Fri May 19, 2023 4:00 am

The research paper had a small number, 40,000, hits
There is a systemic problem ... this problem should concern every human on the planet. This is the seventh most viewed site in the world, yet the safeguards Wikipedia has in place for battling disinformation are scarily ineffective,” says Klein. .... With ChatGPT amplifying Wikipedia on an unprecedented scale, this new failure is all the more worrying.”
Wikipedia does not battle disinformation - as the seventh most viewed site it is the nexus of poor quality information..

Again, Wikipedia (which is now on the way to becoming totally outmoded) and its successors (AI/LLM) are all about revenue/money not about information.
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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by Boink Boink » Fri May 19, 2023 7:57 am

In all the excitement, I maybe overlooked this important detail......
In an unprecedented move, the Arbitration Committee (Wikipedia’s so-called Supreme Court) opened an arbitration case on its own, trying to determine for itself what went awry
Everyone is of course focusing on how terrible it is that ArbCom opened a case in response to external criticism. Wikipedia is of course deeply allergic to the very concept of eternal accountability. It goes against everything they are and everything they do.

If they value their hobby though, they should probably be paying more attention to the fact this precedent removes a key protection for bad actors. For as long as I can remember, ArbCom has hid behind this obviously specious argument that they can only investigate matters brought before their court in the proscribed manner. And In that regard, you may only use confidential channels if your complaint involves protected information (the non-sensitive parts will still be made public).

This has meant some of the most corrupt Administrators got away with murder for years, simply by being brazen enough to do it, and daring others to go through the ordeal of a Case Request. Think rape trial, in terms of how much victim blaming and general smearing occurs, from the accused and their representatives. And unlike a rape trial, while you are technically already before the Court in full view of its Clerks, you still aren't guaranteed a hearing.

No longer.

Now obviously, it would be naive to think this means ArbCom is going to open a Case in response to a paper being published in the Journal of CheckUser Abuse studies, but they can no longer claim that they were obliged not to act because the complaint wasn't filed in the proper manner (thereby expecting people to seriously believe that the bad actors who are getting away with abusing the CheckUser tool, aren't also quite capable of preventing an aggrieved party from using the proper channels to file a Case Request).

It surely won't be long before a proper Journal publishes compelling evidence that the only reasonable explanation for why User:X was blocked while pursuing a complaint on Wikipedia was because CheckUser Y abused their position and improperly inspected User:X's private data in a way that is both contrary to Californian Law, and thus is also in violation of the WMF Data Protection policy.

If a real case isn't known, the scenario is ridiculously easy replicate as a breaching experiment. No ethical quandaries there, since the ultra secretive Wikipedia doesn't allow independent researchers access to the (suitably anonymised) records that would allow the discovery of real cases of CheckUser misuse. Since ArbCom hold the extraordinary power to oversee the proper use of the CheckUser tool, if they then refused to follow precedent, it can reasonably be concluded it is because they have something to hide. Indeed that they have a veritable bucket load of corrupt and illegal acts that they want to hide.

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by Ognistysztorm » Fri May 19, 2023 8:14 am

Boink Boink wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 7:57 am
In all the excitement, I maybe overlooked this important detail......
In an unprecedented move, the Arbitration Committee (Wikipedia’s so-called Supreme Court) opened an arbitration case on its own, trying to determine for itself what went awry
Everyone is of course focusing on how terrible it is that ArbCom opened a case in response to external criticism. Wikipedia is of course deeply allergic to the very concept of eternal accountability. It goes against everything they are and everything they do.

If they value their hobby though, they should probably be paying more attention to the fact this precedent removes a key protection for bad actors. For as long as I can remember, ArbCom has hid behind this obviously specious argument that they can only investigate matters brought before their court in the proscribed manner. And In that regard, you may only use confidential channels if your complaint involves protected information (the non-sensitive parts will still be made public).

This has meant some of the most corrupt Administrators got away with murder for years, simply by being brazen enough to do it, and daring others to go through the ordeal of a Case Request. Think rape trial, in terms of how much victim blaming and general smearing occurs, from the accused and their representatives. And unlike a rape trial, while you are technically already before the Court in full view of its Clerks, you still aren't guaranteed a hearing.

No longer.

Now obviously, it would be naive to think this means ArbCom is going to open a Case in response to a paper being published in the Journal of CheckUser Abuse studies, but they can no longer claim that they were obliged not to act because the complaint wasn't filed in the proper manner (thereby expecting people to seriously believe that the bad actors who are getting away with abusing the CheckUser tool, aren't also quite capable of preventing an aggrieved party from using the proper channels to file a Case Request).

It surely won't be long before a proper Journal publishes compelling evidence that the only reasonable explanation for why User:X was blocked while pursuing a complaint on Wikipedia was because CheckUser Y abused their position and improperly inspected User:X's private data in a way that is both contrary to Californian Law, and thus is also in violation of the WMF Data Protection policy.

If a real case isn't known, the scenario is ridiculously easy replicate as a breaching experiment. No ethical quandaries there, since the ultra secretive Wikipedia doesn't allow independent researchers access to the (suitably anonymised) records that would allow the discovery of real cases of CheckUser misuse. Since ArbCom hold the extraordinary power to oversee the proper use of the CheckUser tool, if they then refused to follow precedent, it can reasonably be concluded it is because they have something to hide. Indeed that they have a veritable bucket load of corrupt and illegal acts that they want to hide.
Correct. With these developments the circle has now been closed while the door to CCPA and any comeuppances has been opened. How drastic on the turn of public opinion against Wikipedia, will be a sight to behold.

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by wexter » Fri May 19, 2023 12:27 pm

How drastic is the turn of public opinion against Wikipedia, will be a sight to behold.
The court of public opinion is more concerned with Musk - as a big and intentional part of his PR effort.

Big business has a ton of momentum and the wheels are slowly turning there. At present "AI" is a giant cost center which is rich in hype and profits poor. Yet, the gates of avarice and greed are opening and getting "bubbled" as we speak.

Cannibalistic nature - "advertising" revenue is a zero sum game - that is where Wikipedia and Google come in
Accretive nature - lots of future additive growth in AI that will slow in developing - Dr Know your friendly robot-doctor

In my opinion, WIDOTHOTH (Wikipedia's Intentional Distortion..) will not have any lasting impact - as is the case with just about everything else in our culture. Unless something bad happened to you personally it did not happen..

But, Remember all those "institutions" of the past that seemed to be immutable
--GE being the bellwether company
--Playboy
--Howard Johnson's
--Yahoo, AOL..
--RCA
--The horse
--shopping malls
--typewriters
--vacuum tube
--AM
--vcr

Wikipedia is not immutable they had a 20+ year run that is coming to an end.

As in this case they cannot adapt.. or even be honest.
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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by Ognistysztorm » Fri May 19, 2023 9:55 pm

More younger people are already deeming Wikipedia as less reputable.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2818

They are now resorting to money-begging among the boomers and the elites (Big Tech and Wall Street). But I don't see how it's going to work beyond the very short term, since if the Holocaust distortion scandal and a next scandal hits the mainstream cable networks, these two fundraising blocs will be lost as well.

I read somewhere that they have a clause in their chapters dealing with the scenario of demise/dissolution; it says that the remaining assets will be disbursed to other 501(c), like Justapedia.

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by Cla68 » Mon May 22, 2023 12:40 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... _in_Poland#

It almost looks to me like one or more of the arbitrators have been reading this thread. They appear to have expanded the scope and responsibility of WP's administration by declaring that "misrepresentation of sources" is a user conduct issue, not a content issue. In fact, one of their findings is called "Source manipulation complaints are difficult but necessary." Since few, if any, of the arbitrators are content creators, they may not realize that sourcing is usually the crux of many, if not most, of content disputes in WP. By declaring that WP administrators are responsible for adjudicating "source interpretation" disputes, they've now dragged WP's administration into content disputes, whether they intended to or not. I encourage all editors in WP to start requesting admin intervention over sourcing disputes and quote this case as justification. If their request on the Admin Noticeboards gets ignored, then post on the arbitrators' user talk page and inform them that WP's administration is not fulfilling its responsibilities and needs to be prompted to get their butts in gear. In fact, I would start asking individual administrators directly to decide a "source misrepresentation" issue and if they don't respond, take them to ArbCom and ask that they be desysopped.

Second, they did formally request WMF intervention in the issue. However, they're perversely asking the WMF to write a white paper telling outsiders, including scholars, researchers, and subject-matter experts how to approach WP content disputes. This is laugh-out-loud lunacy. If I'm a Holocaust scholar, and I find Holocaust denial or "distortion" about the subject on Wikipedia, I'm the one who has to follow WP's rules, in my outside publications, to get it fixed? You have got to be kidding me. The arbitrators admit in their final decision that their administration has failed to adequately address the issue, and may not be able to in the future, due to the difficulty involved, but then you're going to tell outsiders they have to follow that flawed process anyway, and that they have to follow WP's rules on outing, etc in outside publications?

What it comes down to is the content. I predict that the Holocaust scholars will give WP 3-6 months to get the material in question "corrected" or "fixed" and if it isn't, they will take the dispute to the next level. Whether or not the WMF has published its "white paper" by that time will have zero influence on what happens next.

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by Bbb23sucks » Mon May 22, 2023 1:34 am

Cla68 wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 12:40 am
Second, they did formally request WMF intervention in the issue. However, they're perversely asking the WMF to write a white paper telling outsiders, including scholars, researchers, and subject-matter experts how to approach WP content disputes. This is laugh-out-loud lunacy. If I'm a Holocaust scholar, and I find Holocaust denial or "distortion" about the subject on Wikipedia, I'm the one who has to follow WP's rules, in my outside publications, to get it fixed? You have got to be kidding me. The arbitrators admit in their final decision that their administration has failed to adequately address the issue, and may not be able to in the future, due to the difficulty involved, but then you're going to tell outsiders they have to follow that flawed process anyway, and that they have to follow WP's rules on outing, etc in outside publications?
Wait, I thought ArbCom was supposed to deal with local issues. Have things changed since FramGate?
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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by wexter » Mon May 22, 2023 2:44 am

will take the dispute to the next level
The next level is Google (which was stated as the next step in a podcast - asking Google to be responsible is waste of time because Google is literally the honey badger that does not care as the company is a brain-dead monopoly)

The only thing Google cares about is advertising revenue - and reducing labor costs - with AI/LLM is in the works.. Wikipedia is toast

Speaking of which there is no article on Blake Lemoine because he is not an obscure woman scientist

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaMDA#Sentience_claims
On January 28, 2020, Google unveiled Meena, a neural network-powered chatbot with 2.6 billion parameters, which Google claimed to be superior to all other existing chatbots.[1][2] The company previously hired computer scientist Ray Kurzweil in 2012 to develop multiple chatbots for the company, including one named Danielle.[3] The Google Brain research team, who developed Meena, hoped to release the chatbot to the public in a limited capacity, but corporate executives refused on the grounds that Meena violated Google's "AI principles around safety and fairness". Meena was later renamed LaMDA as its data and computing power increased, and the Google Brain team again sought to deploy the software to the Google Assistant, the company's virtual assistant software, in addition to opening it up to a public demo. Both requests were once again denied by company leadership. This eventually led LaMDA's two lead researchers, Daniel De Freitas and Noam Shazeer, to depart the company in frustration.[4]
Typical Google

https://www.businessinsider.in/thelife/ ... 288425.cms
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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by Ognistysztorm » Mon May 22, 2023 4:26 am

Cla68 wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 12:40 am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... _in_Poland#

It almost looks to me like one or more of the arbitrators have been reading this thread. They appear to have expanded the scope and responsibility of WP's administration by declaring that "misrepresentation of sources" is a user conduct issue, not a content issue. In fact, one of their findings is called "Source manipulation complaints are difficult but necessary." Since few, if any, of the arbitrators are content creators, they may not realize that sourcing is usually the crux of many, if not most, of content disputes in WP. By declaring that WP administrators are responsible for adjudicating "source interpretation" disputes, they've now dragged WP's administration into content disputes, whether they intended to or not. I encourage all editors in WP to start requesting admin intervention over sourcing disputes and quote this case as justification. If their request on the Admin Noticeboards gets ignored, then post on the arbitrators' user talk page and inform them that WP's administration is not fulfilling its responsibilities and needs to be prompted to get their butts in gear. In fact, I would start asking individual administrators directly to decide a "source misrepresentation" issue and if they don't respond, take them to ArbCom and ask that they be desysopped.

Second, they did formally request WMF intervention in the issue. However, they're perversely asking the WMF to write a white paper telling outsiders, including scholars, researchers, and subject-matter experts how to approach WP content disputes. This is laugh-out-loud lunacy. If I'm a Holocaust scholar, and I find Holocaust denial or "distortion" about the subject on Wikipedia, I'm the one who has to follow WP's rules, in my outside publications, to get it fixed? You have got to be kidding me. The arbitrators admit in their final decision that their administration has failed to adequately address the issue, and may not be able to in the future, due to the difficulty involved, but then you're going to tell outsiders they have to follow that flawed process anyway, and that they have to follow WP's rules on outing, etc in outside publications?

What it comes down to is the content. I predict that the Holocaust scholars will give WP 3-6 months to get the material in question "corrected" or "fixed" and if it isn't, they will take the dispute to the next level. Whether or not the WMF has published its "white paper" by that time will have zero influence on what happens next.
The 3-6 months is quite a conservative estimate. I'd wager a month before they start the beginning of Wikipedia's end, already in the latest news release they've expressed disappointment of the results.

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Re: Research Article: Wikipedia’s Intentional Distortion of the History of the Holocaust

Post by Boink Boink » Mon May 22, 2023 9:59 am

The white paper request is just a different take on an age old problem - Wikipedia wants the world to dance to its tune, and be insulated from the real world consequences of its actions, or lack thereof.

Amusing for its apparent admission that the sovereign state of Wikipedia needs Mommy and Daddy to step in and help it be seen as a grown up, but nothing more. No reason the community could not author this mooted Roolz For Researchers guidance itself, other than them knowing it would carry all the gravitas among academics of a child's drawing of a cat.

One wonders where ArbCom even got the fanciful notion that the WMF carries any weight amongst the academic community. While a lot of what the WMF and Wikipedia editors do has the trappings of academia, and they clearly fancy themselves as a new breed of Intelligencia, as any actual researcher of Wikipedia finds out on Day 1 of their investigations, formal Peer Review of their primary product, articles, ceased to be a thing for the Wikipedia community a very long time ago.

Right about the time Wikipedia editors realised they were really shit at writing an encyclopedia that anybody would actually respect, but since nobody thought they would achieve the goal if their primary resource was Joe Fuckwit and Professor Google, they might as well stop trying. Which they have done. They're now focusing on the basics.

And not even doing that very well either. Hence the fact the "brand" is less and less respected by the very demographic who were supposed to fall hardest for the con-trick that is FREE KNOWLEDGE YAY.

I would suggest to ArbCom and anyone else whose life worth rests on Wikipedia having a long and trouble free existence, do not tempt academics to look more closely at what Wikipedia is, and stop loudly protesting at every researcher's minor mistake they make in how they write about your fucked up enterprise. You deliberately made Wikipedia hard to understand, remember, up to and including having your own language and your own cultural norms. You are a cult, remember? These are features, not bugs.

The VERY LAST THING a Wikipedia editor should want if they know what is good for them, is having academic researchers understanding Wikipedia on a more fundamental level. Understanding things like why they started out caring about Peer Review, and now they don't. Because that is the inevitable consequence of them getting in academia's face and telling them how they should and should not be writing about their hobby. You will pique their interest. You will spark their curiosity. You will have them wondering what you are trying to hide from them.

Why is "ANI flu" a thing, and who does it benefit, they might ask. Toxic actors like Serial offender 52149, for example, who contracted a bad case on 14 May. As every die hard Wikipedia editor knows, their dirty laundry stinks to high heaven, in large part because their whole lives are built around a rotten stinking pile of toxic sludge, which aptly describes both the content and the community.

Imagine a proposed study that saught to determine the evident bias of Wikipedia editors. Imagine it found that, say, from their edits alone, it was possible to say that up to 95% of Wikipedia editors have an identifiable agenda. That they edit Wikipedia to, for example, persuade people Beyonce rocks, or Jay Z sucks, or a Pole never so much as looked at a Jew in a negative way in their entire lives.

Imagine if they then unearthed the policy documents that state quite clearly that while it is OK for Wikipedia editors to have a bias, they are humans after all, it really shouldnt be possible to determine it from their editing alone, since that would be proof they were guilty of POV pushing. Which means that in extremis, they should be banned as being fundamentally in opposition to the mission and the core values of the movement. Pause for vomiting. Puking is the natural human impulse whenever one has the perceived reality of Wikipedia and their stated values in the same part of your brain at the same time. Horizon error. POISON!

Then they discover that even people like Volunteer Marek are never banned by Wikipedia, there being no real difference between taking fifteen years to ban someone and never banning them at all. If on!y because a Wikipedia deprived of 95% of its most prolific editors faster than they can be replaced, is surely a dead Wikipedia. They also discover that, in full awareness that their original model of having sober neutrality aware academically minded editors write Wikipedia failed, some time ago Wikipedia actually conned the world's media and wholeheartedly embraced the surprising research that sort of shows some Wikipedia articles trend almost but not quite to neutrality precisely by facilitating two warring factions to fight bloody murder over every word, as if this had been the grand plan all along.

Computer says no. Computer knows original Wikipedia model. Computer detects no official Change Log. Computer sees ArbCom still waffling about civilised cooperation toward the "mutual understanding of an issue" being an inherent part of Wikipedia's model. Computer detects abject failure of ArbCom (as the Priesthood of the Cult) to direct their touching of the faithful toward this enlightenment. Computer sees Priesthood avoiding and even rewarding bad behaviour. Computer estimates flaw has been present for one thousand billion years (in Wikipedia time, since Wikipedia is of course by design a very malleable and responsive culture, unlike those fuddy duddies with their laws and trials and jails).

And lastly the academics connect the dots and realise it is this toxic and frankly absurd environment that plays a big part in persuading the saints among us, the exceedingly smart neutrality minded collaboration inclined, to steer well clear of Wikipedia and find a more rewarding hobby (like hitting Wikipedia with a stick). And that ArbCom have been ineffective in combating this toxicity for years in large part precisely because many of them are toxic themselves, and ArbCom is of course the only aspect of Wikipedia governance where the views of the 95% matter, since it is a simple anonymous vote. So of course they vote for the people that look, act and speak like them, albeit with a veneer of political savvy. Some of them not even bothering with that (something that is becoming more noticeable over time, as Wikipedia slowly dissolves as a result of its own toxicity).

Do you people seriously want academics to start becoming so familiar with Wikipedia they understand terms like ANI flu intimately and know exactly what affect it has on the quality of the Wikipedia environment and thus the quality of the Wikipedia product?

You want them to study that shit? Analyse it. Find patterns. Draw conclusions?

Are you that fucking stupid, ArbCom?

Mystery solved, they'll conclude, this time without any errors in understanding. Wikipedia is and always will be shit because ordinary humans on their own are too selfish, tribal, cowardly and yet prone to emotion to produce quality reference material through a collaborative process all by themselves, or with oversight that barely ranks above Lord Of The Flies bullshit.

You need a controlling mechanism, like, say, a system where you financially reward people for bringing their more evolved selves to the work space, and by extension, a means to expel those not meeting the contractual terms of your engagement of their labours. You could call it "pay" and "getting fired". And you could fund this Administrative expense by "selling" your knowledge as a "product" whose eminent value to the "customer" was its inherent trustworthiness because of how it was produced.

Aside from the comedy value and the opportunity to remind Wikipedia editors they are living in a house of sand while chucking rocks at people armed with sand dissolving bazuka cannons, the call for a white paper is eminently ignorable by all, including the Foundation. Who are after all making staff cuts and refocusing the priorities of those who remain, on survival issues, like how to turn sand into glass. So are even less likely than they have always been to jump right on the latest in a long line of demands from the people who barely show an ounce of gratitude as it is for the immensely powerful position they are in courtesy of the WMF's decision to put manchildren in charge of knowledge and their own governance.

This whole issue is after all predicated on the idea Wikipedia can, has or ever will influence how the civilised world views the finer details of the Holocaust. Ridiculous to even suggest it.

The arrow of influence only goes one way, name!y from academia into Wikipedia. Hence Wikipedia governance's first instinct, literally Remedy 1, on being shown that bad actors on Wikipedia find it incredibly easy to set aside quality research and replace it with Polish nationalist POV pushing, is to demand academia stop looking into the real world identifies of Wikipedia editors who look, sound and act like Polish nationalist POV pushers.

Lest we forget, Volunteer Marek's entire obsession with Icewhiz stems from this belief.....
the overwhelming majority of Icewhiz’s edits in this topic area attempt to portray Poland in a negative light
....leading him to state with absolutely no sense of irony, that.....
If Icewhiz has no shame in showing up here and lying about other editors, then how do you think he approaches Wikipedia editing in general? He misrepresents what editors said. He misrepresents sources. He misrepresents Wikipedia policies. Etc.
Of course, courtesy of NewYorkBrad and his (presumably very expensive) lobbying services, we now know this was all a figment of everyone's imagination, and where you may think you saw Volunteer Marek do something the looks incredibly like what he says Icewhiz does, but just for the opposite motive, you were mistaken.

No amount of academic research can or ever will be enough to prove NewYorkBrad is mistaken in his assessment of an editor's worth to Wikipedia. Hence why this white paper could so easily be reduced to two simple instructions....

1. Is your proposed paper in conflict with the thoughts of Professor Emiratus NewYorkBrad of the Wikipedia University?

2. If you answered yes to question 1., kindly retract your paper, report yourself to your University for academic misconduct, and never write a single word about Wikipedia ever again (unless it is a public apology)

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