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Carrite
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Re: Discord

Post by Carrite » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:31 am

ericbarbour wrote:
Carrite wrote:"Bizarre psychotic monologues?"

"Illiterate blatherings?"

"Epithet-sputtering paranoid rages?"

"Unmedicated episodes of Tourrette's spew?"

"Diseased splatterings of inanity and venom?"

"Tedious dumpings of intellectual dung?"

YOU'RE THE EXPERT!


Mad burn, Eric... You forgot to colorize the "huge" ALL CAPS...

"I know you are but what about me?!?" is how the slower kids used to argue in third grade — a capacity which, come to think of it, does explain a lot about why you've let your forum be utterly destroyed by an illiterate Dutch clodhopper...

RfB

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Discord

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:58 am

Tim wrote:by an illiterate Dutch clodhopper...

Come on, Timmy boy. I have read all the classics, most German writers like Heinrich Böll, Thomas Abbt, Günter Grass, all in German, all Dutch classic writers as Jan Wolkers, Reve, etc, etc. and my father's entire bookcase including the angry young man and Shakespeare. When I was five years old I was already reading the Donald Duck in English and was interested in the Encyclopedia of Britannica. I can even read simple articles in the Greek newspapers in Greek.

Come on Timmy, stop making the fool out of yourself. Are you really so stupide not to understand a old fashion professor and his wife didn't educate there child themself because they considered the schools as worthless in that time?

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Abd
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Re: Discord

Post by Abd » Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:47 pm

So one narrow point:

I quoted an article from a journal on the issue of Dutch judicial discretion. None of the sources Graff claims supports his view have actually agreed with it. Trolls do this, cite others to support them and link to irrelevant articles. My source:

Sentencing in the Netherlands: Discretion and Disparity
Peter J. P. Tak
Federal Sentencing Reporter
Vol. 7, No. 6, Sentencing in Europe (May - Jun., 1995), pp. 300-304
Published by: University of California Press on behalf of the Vera Institute of Justice
DOI: 10.2307/20639821
https://www.jstor.org/stable/20639821
Page Count: 5

Peter J. P. Tak was a professor at the University of Nijmegen, which, last I looked, is in the Netherlands, and perhaps Tak knows something about Dutch law?

Ya think?

I thought perhaps that the law might have changed since 1995, but (1) very unlikely, and (2) if true, our self-declared expert in Dutch law would be able to say that. Instead, he cries "lies" and uses pure ad-hominem argument. Typical for trolls. He denies being a troll, but the behavior he recommends is precisely trolling, to provoke others into harmful response.

Tak's article explains why citing a particular case where the judge applied a harsh penalty does not show general Dutch practice. Judges have very wide discretion, and this can go both ways. As a statement of what is within the bounds of reasonable possibility, Graaf was correct, except that he doesn't state it that way. Instead, he paints a wild-eyed, dramatic picture of Certain Doom. This is how very disturbed individuals think, when they stop hiding it.

He is obsessed and can be predicted to fill up an forum that permits him with rants on his favorite topic. It is possible that he can be restrained, if a moderator is willing to put up with him. (Most of his vituperation on the Discord server has been directly at the moderator here, who is also active there.) I will be doing something like it on the Discord server, having been empowered. One step at a time, I can't be everywhere at once.

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Discord

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:03 pm

Here Abd, something to read you for the weekend.


5000 Euro!

https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/inzie ... 2018:10058

Have a nice day, Abd.

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Discord

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:26 pm

By the the way, amazing someone who even doesn't know the difference between the Dutch criminal law (Peter J. P. Tak his specialism is criminal law) and the Dutch civil law has such a strong opinion, Abd. :roll:

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Discord

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Nov 02, 2019 7:06 pm

Well, Abd, wondering what you vision is.

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Abd
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Re: Discord

Post by Abd » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:24 pm

Graaf Statler wrote:Here Abd, something to read you for the weekend.
5000 Euro!
https://uitspraken.rechtspraak.nl/inzie ... 2018:10058
Have a nice day, Abd.

Why, thanks, Graaf. How thoughtful of you. That article does not contradict what I've known and written about copyright and other issues in regard to Dutch law. The woman used an image for commercial purpose, ignorantly. She was running a commercial web site and did not understand the law. It is possible that she could have defended herself more effectively, but was not competent to do so and the cost of an attorney would be higher than to simply pay off the copyright owner.

From the case document linked, it's obvious that she represented herself, and incompetently. The most serious aspect of her case would be that she did not immediately take the photos down and *then* negotiate a fee.

Apparently from the RTL story this judgment was unusually high, but that may have been caused by multiple violations and no immediate takedown. She was deluded and seems to have hoped that the problem would go away if she ignored the "scammer." Accusing the plaintiff of being a scammer in a court filing with no evidence was not smart at all. She made an excuse for not getting competent advice that her insurance did not cover copyright issues. Expensive excuse. It is generally possible to get a brief opinion from an attorney for far, far less than what she ended up owing. (I could get an opinion on my lawsuit for $250 for a half hour from defamation professionals, but I know that far more time would be needed, I don't need to hear that it's unlikely to succeed, based on a shallow review, so I haven't arranged it. Later, if this gets serious, I may, depending on whether or not there is support.

None of this has any clear application to what Graaf has been claiming that, "decades later" some teenager who posts copyrighted material on Wikipedia could be "ruined," "on the street," because of huge penalties. There are countless copyright violations that occur, some transiently, some persistent, on the WMF wikis. Where are the lawsuits? Is there some risk? Of course there is. But what is the actual risk, in the real world, as distinct from Graaf's fantasies?

A lot of people are getting screwed like this around the world, and eventually the problem will be addressed. But for now, yes, running a commercial site in the U.S., high caution is advised. There is less problem in the U.S. with non-commercial projects (such as my blog). Law is different in Europe on "fair use," and what is crucial to know, considering matters of law, is actual precedent. Someone's interpretation of the law, without actual cases, can be quite delusional.

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Discord

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Nov 02, 2019 9:39 pm

Yes, we realy need you here as a Dutch copyright expert Abd.

Dirk Zwagerman advocaten

Een professioneel fotografe eiste 1,7 miljoen euro, wegens de ongeautoriseerde overname van een serie foto's. Uiteindelijk werd er 10.000 euro toegewezen.

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Graaf Statler
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Re: Discord

Post by Graaf Statler » Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:10 pm

Here Abd, about commercial use.

https://www.charlotteslaw.nl/auteursrec ... l-gebruik/

Allereerst: in Nederland doet het er in de basis niet toe of je een werk commercieel gebruikt of niet

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Re: Discord

Post by Abd » Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:06 pm

Graaf Statler wrote:Yes, we realy need you here as a Dutch copyright expert Abd.
I have never claimed to be an expert on Dutch copyright. Graaf has many times pointed to Dutch sources, and none of them contradict what I have stated. The basic problem is that Graaf does not understand what I've stated, imagines I'm claiming something false, and then rants about it ad nauseum. There is an example in the next post. I think about the limits and exceptions and Graaf imagines that I'm denying the central ideas. I'm not. It can be quite expensive to violate copyright, anywhere in the world, not just in Holland. On the other hand, some violations are not commonly prosecuted and there are exceptions, etc.

Dirk Zwagerman advocaten

Een professioneel fotografe eiste 1,7 miljoen euro, wegens de ongeautoriseerde overname van een serie foto's. Uiteindelijk werd er 10.000 euro toegewezen.
This is completely off-point. The next post by Graaf is a little closer, I'll respond to that as well. Graaf is also confused there.

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