Fram

[CrowsNest]

Can I be the first to point out that a local project where Bureaucrats are in open warfare......

Maxim’s removal of Fram’s administrator userright is the second time Maxim has performed an out-of-process desysop (previous occurrence: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Fred Bauder#Maxim desysopped Fred Bauder). –xenotalk 10:19, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

.......has demonstrably not actually settled on a consensus regarding the immutable nature of Office actions or the degree of autonomy its volunteers have.

I mean, sure, we could wait and see if the local volunteer staffed dispute resolution mechanisms can get them out of this sticky mess before someone breaks something that actually matters, accidentally or on purpose.

But why would you? If is beyond obvious that even the local Arbitrators are incapable of adequately discharging their roles.......

......As expressed to the WMF, on principle many of us on the committee do not believe ArbCom should be enforcing WMF Office actions unless absolutely necessary (such as public safety). I was pleased to see the WMF was willing to de-escalate the situation by rightly choosing to not pursue further actions against the individuals who initially reversed or acted in contravention of WMF Office actions. By withdrawing their intent to enforce a portion of their own policy, they are providing a standing one-time exemption.......

This is a gross distortion of the facts. The WMF have not provided a one time exemption nor signalled any intent that their policy not be enforced in this or any other scenario (quite the reverse). They merely deferred to the local authorities as regards what has to happen to your local user rights holders given they seem intent on defying the authority of Office actions. It is your choice to take action, or provide a one time exception. You leaned toward the latter, but when it had its inevitable consequence, are now trying to claim there is somehow a line to be drawn in how far local user rights may be abused in the cause of civil disobedience.

You done fucked up, all of you. Resignations, certainly those that that lack genuine remorse or even a guarantee there won't be a repeat performance, don't put this genie back in its bottle.

Prepare to be boarded, as they say.

Daddy's coming home, and he's PISSED.

[CrowsNest]

I love how the more technical questions about ArbCom’s jurisdiction are getting completely glossed over. I think it’s quite salient, the question of whether Office Actions being outside ArbCom’s jurisdiction means that they have no authority to enforce them.

But I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that nobody there really gets what “jurisdiction” means.

I love how you think the ArbCom cases is about enforcing Office Actions.

Fram is Office banned, has been since he was informed he was so banned.

The ArbCom Case is about the "civil disobedience" of assorted local rights holders who manifestly didn't have the jurisdiction, and had no other kind of authority or permission, to fuck with the technical means by which Fram's ban is implemented at the local level.

The ban is still in effect, and is holding simply through the means of deterrent pressure, because whatever the idiot rebels think, Fram knows who has jurisdiction over his right to edit any WMF owned site.

At least it would be if ArbCom would drop this ridiculous idea that in handing over the responsibility of deciding what to do with the rebels, the WMF were somehow telling them not to sanction them. They are leaving the decision up to them, presumably to look for some actual evidence the locals can actually govern themselves in a way that is compatible with the WMF.

The only reason WJScribe's latest act was reverted by the locals, was because he did something that would have forced the WMF to reconsider their generosity in deferring matters to ArbCom, and would have probably forced them to reimpose the technical measures, but in a way that local users could not tamper with. Global rights holders could, but the theory goes they are not as afflicted with the delusions of grandeur and extreme irresponsibility as the local en.wiki scum.

When ArbCom screws up this final opportunity to make nice and knuckle under, the imagined autonomy of the en.wiki community is going to be branded by the Executive as a serious threat to the strategic goals and indeed legal duties of the WMF. There will be consequences.

[CrowsNest]

So far, the only actual definition of what "self-governing" means to these shitheads that I've seen, is this. ....

* The WMF can keep paying for our servers
* The WMF can keep issuing surprise global non-appealable non-explained bans, but just for really bad people who have violated the Terms of Use
* The WMF can keep being the responsible authority for things like DCMA takedown notices and access to non-public data agreements
* The WMF can keep making any software changes we demand
* Outside of those duties true WMF has to the volunteer community, the Terms of Use are meaningless
* In all other matters, we volunteers are sovereign

You would have to invent a whole new term for this bullshit, because having your cake and eating it doesn't even come close.

[CrowsNest]

The Rambling Asshole is another editor who has 'retired'. Although he is hardly new to the practice of dummy spitting.

If anyone spots an editor who isn't a perfect example of the sort of prick who would have been banned long ago if en.wiki was capable of self-government within the minimum established values of the movement, let me know.

Since everyone is going all Traditionalist and suddenly remembering the Wikipedia came before the Foundation, it might be informative to reprint these 'principles of Wikipedia' posted on 27 October 2001 by its then owner, one Jimmy Wales.......

7. Anyone with a beef should be treated with the utmost respect and dignity. They should be encouraged constantly to present their problems in a constructive way in the open forum of the mailing list. Anyone who just bitches without foundation, refusing to join the discussion, I am afraid I must simply reject and ignore. Consensus is a partnership between interested parties working positively for a common goal. I must not let the "squeaky wheel" be greased just for being a jerk.

8. Diplomacy consists of combining honesty and politeness. Both are objectively valuable moral principles. Be honest with me, but don't be mean to me. Don't misrepresent my views for your own political ends. And I'll treat you the same way.

Anyone who wants to make a case that pieces of shit like The Rambling Man live up to these ideals in any recognizable way whatsoever, you just try. Go on, try.

The Rambling Prick is a perfect example of just how bad you have to be, just to be demoted from the status of Wikipedia Administrator to ordinary editor!

It's a toxic waste dump.

[Graaf Statler]

Yes, Mendaliv really say thinks what makes sense. Indeed, from the moment Fram is informed he is banned and the only one who can lift that ban is WMF. And you simple have to accept and to respect that ban, there is case law about it, something with Twitter if I remember it me correct.
Arbom simple has not any jurisdiction or possibility to lift that ban and If they should do Fram is still banned.
If you want to get that ban lift or anything else about that ban you have to be in a courtroom if WMF refuse it. That's the only option.

[CrowsNest]

Reminder to the WMF just how far the standards of the en.wiki were allowed to drop......

I expect it was all down some trigger happy, half-witted intern in the office, who is now being covered by incompetent superiors because he’s the second cousin of Jimbo’s neighbour’s previous wife. This sort of thing happens all the time in organisations which are badly run. Nepotism lives. Giano (talk) 13:22, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Corrective action to enforce minimum standards is long overdue. It is widely known in the en.wiki community that Giano is untouchable.

As such, the Wikipediots have no excuse in not realizing that en.wiki's own self-government has to be considered captured by the toxics, when the Original and the Best, Queen Bishonen's most favourite Wikipedian, says this....

What everyone is overlooking is that it is not for the WMF to be doing anything concerning the editorship of the encyclopaedia, that is the job of the ArbCom and no one other. If there is something which can’t be disclosed to the rest of us that is fine, it has happened many times before and will again, the ArbCom can act in camera. The only possible exception could be if the WMF is acting to prevent a RL crime, in which case they should be involving the police, and that is the real question, is there RL crime? In fact, it’s the only question and it needs answering. Giano (talk) 13:10, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

There you go people, Giano would rather everything except illegality is handled by ArbCom. Why? Because they don't do shit when confronted with the task of cutting a popular figure like Giano down to size, not even for basic and obvious violations. The original and the best example of the Vested Contributor problem.

It is of course hilarious to listen to his anus talking about legality too - it was of course an extremely serious legal matter when Wikipedia Administrator RexxS chose to release images uploaded by Giano on licenses he had no standing to issue, simply because Giano's just too thick to understand the instructions and too well protected to be expected to follow the same copyright rules applied to everyone else. RexxS literally appointed himself Giano's Legal Personality, but only after he had tried to seriously argue the entire copyright regime of Wikipedia was wrong. The lengths these people will go to, just to protect this one single Unblockable, is fucking unreal. That they get away with it, is mind-blowing.

Rather than send ridiculous bulshit like this to the WMF, wasting the time of actual lawyers, it is probably easier for ArbCom to just remind RexxS he can't simply ignore the copyright policy to help his friends, and yes, even the mighty Giano is expected to read and understand the copyright policy. But no, even that is beyond the people who aspire to be the self-government of an autonomous and independent existence.

Oh, and to further tie this in to Fram's ban, the person who noticed the issue with Giano's uploads and set out to correct it (because not doing so exposed Wikipedia to litigation from copyright trolls), he was greeted not with a thank you, but overt harassment. By several Wikipedia Administrators. Nobody was ever held to account for those clear and obvious ToU violations.

Come to think of it, I think Giano is so well protected, even Fram seemed to know he was off limits. If not, then any interactions they might have had, will doubtless feature countless examples of misconduct, on both sides.

[Graaf Statler]

They simple don't understand the legal status of WMF. If WMF decide tomorrow to put the English Wikipedia on black they simple have that right. Or to desysop all the admins of WP-EN. They can even send arbcom home, WMF is almighty.

[CrowsNest]

Doesn't Wikipediocracy just attract the best people?......

It is impossible for a rogue employee, or even a rogue department, to implement an office action.

Imagine actually spouting this statist nonsense. Do you genuinely believe this is generally true in principle? That having a couple supervisors sign off on the approval of some action clears it of any possibility of irregularity? Does your belief extend to officer-involved shootings? I urge you to strike this tone-deaf nonsense. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 19:25, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

You think that is an appropriate analogy? cygnis insignis 19:33, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

If anything it’s a generous analogy. At least the police are legally required to follow the constitution, and are on some level answerable to their constituents. WMF can just do whatever it wants and lie to us about it and theoretically we get no say. So to actually believe there’s a protection against abuse from some internal review process is even more absurd than believing police review of their own actions is insulated from abuse. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 19:40, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

If you're gonna be offensive, at least be right.

[CrowsNest]

My findings are based on the user interaction tools that show Fram hounding one or more editors. Following them around after being asked not to by other editors and admins. Repeatedly the interaction is Fram showing up after the target. The target never follows Fram. The analysis is pretty data intensive and time consuming. Jehochman Talk 23:00, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Yup.

Fram is a classic example of the institutional failure of en.wiki to govern itself. It is absolutely normal in their weird world, for one Administrator to do something for literally years, even though they know one of more Administrators think it is wrong. It is a product of their all or nothing system - in the face of an intransigent colleague, your only recourse is a full blown Arbitration Case, something nobody ever really wants to do, because it's a giant ballache.

Wikipedia is a place where it's considered normal for one Administrator to warn another Administrator not to do something, for that warning to be ignored, and then......nothing. There are feuds between Administrators built on such disputes that have lasted years. These being the same people trusted to prevent feuding! They all know this, their dirty little secrets.

That literally happened in the case of Fram in his last month, a warning issued by another Administrator, treated with contempt by Fram. And then, nothing. And people are genuinely surprised there could be one or more people out there sick to their back teeth of him always getting away with it?

This is why it is so stupid to claim this revolt is about process, separate to whether Fram actually did anything wrong. The entire fucking reason most of these shitheads are up in arms, is because they known damn well Fram did wrong in the eyes of certain local Administrators (and above), they're just trying to fight the precedent the ban sets, that it is now possible for those critics to circumvent the ineffectual local government and go directly to the WMF.

[CrowsNest]

Pathetic......

User:WJBscribe

RETIRED
This user is no longer active on Wikipedia.

Everyone whatever they are accused of, and whoever their accuser, deserves fair process.

If the WMF fails to respect local projects' autonomy, this is no longer the Wikipedia I knew.

Farewell, Will

If this fucker has ever used his tools to help the WMF enforce one of their surprise indefinite no explanation no appeal global bans, he is a hyoocrite.

Shit, even if he hasn't, to even still be on Wikipedia after those became a thing, yet suddenly find he has an ethical concern with them now........sheer hypocrisy.

And what fucking Wikipedia has he ever known where just reversing an office action (previously a Jimmy action) because you don't like it, was considered acceptable even by the local en.wiki community? He's the first fucking seditionist bastard to have gotten away with it.

So yeah, fuck off Will. Have a nice life. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out, as quite of few of your shitbreed local Administrators are fond of saying. Aaah, sweet sweet autonomy.