ArbCom election 2018

[CrowsNest]

A few days ago, SMcClandish complained about the nature of the voting system. He thinks allowing people to support one person and oppose another, amplifies the influence of voters motivated by hate or revenge, since good faith voters will probably only register support or neutral. He argues that people deemed unsuitable can still be kept out by people voting for those who are suitable.

Obviously that last part is flawed due to their problems with finding enough suitable candidates to make it a genuine choice of who to support for reasons other than who you want to keep out, but that still exists in either system. His argument is sound, hence why we advocate for using it to maximum effect.

Obviously it's a bit sad that he is only bringing it up because it cost him in the last election. Unsurprisingly, apparently entirely unaffected by his Grandad's death, the similar affected The Rambling Man was also moved to complain. But it cannot be argued they are wrong. In this election, hate wins.

Obviously, the first person to shit all over the idea was Floquenbeam, who couldn't even be bothered to put his opposition into words, he just said

Welcome to Wikipedia.

[Graaf Statler]

I real can't understand why nobody asked these guy a few critical questions before, both in his powerful role as a arb and a sysops on WPNL with his strange trolling sock Natuur12 as in the same roll with his Drmies account. Because both Crow and I made very, very clear something stinks and burns here for a long, long time.

I imagine it is because while it is relatively easy to know that someone is socking, it is much more difficult to get them to admit to it on-wiki. Drmies has now in replying to the "peanut gallery" said just enough to show that he is at the very minimum misleading people over his alternative accounts. If he wasn't a bigwig admin then he would already be cu-banhammered. I doubt he will lose out on anything much as a result of any of this, but it will erode some of his position, maybe enough to stop him getting appointed as arb.

It is possible when he replied first (mostly it seems a reply to the comment I posted there), he assumed that I was just a troll (like "Vote (X) for change" for example), and that everyone would ignore it. Possibly he assumed it would strengthen his position. In reality I was just putting forward a question that dozens of Wikipedians were already thinking about, and the fact Drmies entertained it for a moment created a position for others to slip in and ask related questions.

It is possible they would have asked these questions anyway, but I doubt it, unless you give the sharks something to chew on they don't bite.

Anyway the whole Drmies concealed accounts allowed ? topic is now in the member only section on WO and Guido is in the house to tell us Fram is Belgian. Why for the hell did you suggest that Arthur?
It is getting stranger by the hour. Because WMNL and WMBE are with multitalent Multichill aka Romaine in practice one chapter, because Belgium has not his own Wiki. So it is a internal twist.

And for our American friends and readers from other continents, Belgium is a independent country, but in the North part they speak Flemish, Dutch, and in the south part French. So the northern part of Belgium and Holland are very close connected. Flemish and Dutch is only in details differs.

[CrowsNest]

Today I got an email from someone, not through the system, who had found my email address and threatened me. A few years ago, before I was an admin, some dude who'd been advertising himself on Wikipedia found my office phone number and called me at work. These things are scary, like real fucking scary. Please don't do that kind of thing, ever. Drmies (talk) 16:11, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

A classic case of Drmies being able to tell his story on Wikipedia, without anybody being able to independently verify it. What were the nature of the threats? What did you do about it? And this person who you claim were advertising themselves, who were they? What specifically scared you? Could it possibly be that you realised you can't get away with maligning people and then hiding behind the walls of Wikipedia?

This wouldn't be the first time I'd seen where Drmies claims something was advertising, but was either not unambiguously such, or was not at all. Substitute "advertising" for "vandalising" or "chit chat" or any of the number of ways he uses to denigrate people, often inaccurately due to his massive ABF problem, and you can see how he might get one of these calls quite regularly.

Especially given his block first, begrudgingly clarify later, if he really has to, if the person asking a question can't easily be brushed off, someone like Fram, approach to being an Administrator.

For now, without further proof, then given in the years since, as highlighted by Fram, he hasn't done much to hide who he really is from those who want to know, we can assume he is at best exaggerating, at worst, lying his ass off.

[Graaf Statler]

Typical Dutch. Moira-Nl has sad two weeks under the table when TBloeming and JurgenNl had walked trough here street. That was so extreem scaring, you have no idea! And I, yes, I had had also such a email. They should break bones for my door! With a description of my house and my real name in the email adres!
Well, I went immediately to the police for protection of course! One mouth there was a police car here for my door! Yes real Michel!

Fuck off, Michel and what is true of the story YOU have given the private information of Moira to that two complete harmless autistic boys?
And look at there pictures on ED, and look at that picture of Moira. If Moira had hit them with one hit each of the two had ended up for at least a mouth in a hospital. Moira afraid for that two losers, give me a break.

Wat een gelul nu toch weer Michel met je fucking scaring, zo een mail mieter je toch gewoon weg als je hem überhaupt hebt gehad of niet aan jezelf gestuurd hebt tenminste. En had jij trouwens die mail met Trijnstel haar echte naam en leeftijd erin gestuurd indertijd? Zou me namelijk nix verbazen....

[Dysklyver]

Anyway the whole Drmies concealed accounts allowed ? topic is now in the member only section on WO and Guido is in the house to tell us Fram is Belgian. Why for the hell did you suggest that Arthur?

Mainly because it turns out that may be doing things with his teenage students, and that he unblocked a certain user based on private evidence.

[Graaf Statler]

I see. It is indeed not a pleasurable topic. It is a strange topic, special the appearance of Guido in that topic is strange to defend himself and to attack Fram. And all that unfounded terrible accusations.......
Why in the members only section, Arthur, why don't they just delete that parts? Because I am pretty sure his students have a account there and can read there too.
And I am pretty sure if I should accuse you from all kinds of this nasty things without any evidence Stieln or Eric should delete it and block me.

It looks to me they want to hurt Drmies as hard as they can, because this kind of accusations are very, very serious.

[Dysklyver]

Why in the members only section, Arthur, why don't they just delete that parts? Because I am pretty sure his students have a account there and can read there too.

Jake has said he may split the thread and move the less offensive bit back again. Vigilant and Corbett are now just having a flame war, the whole thing just sliding into the abyss...

[Graaf Statler]

It is a very sick discussion. If you look at this edit it makes complete clear what I am claiming all the time, Drmies is just like Moira-NL a public account, I think, I suppose run by his students. What else do you want, because here is the evidence. Just like I gave the evidence Moira trol-bot was run by little backward Ymnes.
And the little shit Guido with his Jehova TrolloSage is just one of the Dutch wiki-gang, see the welcome Drmies gave him.
And my SanFanBan was a tremendous troll blunder of Michel, and this are the FACTS!

You are a jurist Arthur, I am a bare foot jurist.
1) And where do we look at? Evidences and not Wikipediocrazy bullshit with the filter trolling around Midsize Jack.
2) And what do we have here? Evidences and FACTS.
3) So, who is still voting for Dutch/Belgium cabal member Michel or one of his multi-socks is just a tremendous troll him or herself.
4) And that are the FACKTS.

[CrowsNest]

On lordy!

"Like others, I don't have much of a platform to run on, though transparency is one of them". Except that you weren't transparent (or good) when an Arb, you weren't transparent when declaring your socks (or good at hiding them), and your adminning seems dubious as well. Any actual reasons why should become an Arb anyway? Fram (talk) 19:26, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

There wasn't really a question here, so have a nice day Fram. Drmies (talk) 01:30, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

HAVE A NICE DAY FRAM!



Drmies playing with fire here. If Fram doesn't like you, he won't be phoning you up, he won't be creating socks to harass you, he's gonna do what he does best. He'll harass and intimidate you, all out in the open, on the wiki, as Fram, but all entirely within the confines of what is considered acceptable behaviour, borne of a concern for the integrity of Wikipedia and nothing more.

Unlike Drmies, it is something he has shown he has the requisite skill and patience to pull off. Drmies tries to do this, but he lacks the character and temperament to be able to pull it off. Fram also benefits from the fact he only targets people who are obviously threats to Wikipedia, and he doesn't care who they are, friend of foe, powerful or powerless, he'll go after them. Drmies, not so much.

Drmies happily looks the other way, even assists, his friends, and he is obviously a devotee of the principle that on Wikipedia, you can and should convert good service for get out of jail free cards. Drmies clearly enjoys the power he has over nobodies, gets a kick out of squishing them, yet is as cowardly as you would expect any bully to be, when confronted with another bully.

The thing about Fram is, the genius of his art, is that you are left in no doubt that whatever part of his motivation is the noble act of upholding the integrity of Wikipedia, he does also just really fucking enjoy it. A little too much, as has already rather ineffectively been noted by the NotFrams. And that's the problem with Wikipedia. All they did was note it.

Fram knows all he had to do was tone it down until everyone has forgotten they had noted it. Seems daft to even call it a skill, but when contrasted with the inartful way Drmies blunders his way around the wiki, his apparent skill all being merely dumb luck and brute force ignorance, the you have to recognise it for what it is.

And you cannot help but admire the way Fram is using his power to take on other people with power. I think he may be the only Administrator who even does it, the rest of the wannabe Marshals being all talk and no trousers, when push comes to shove.

Drmies gets it. His real reason for being mad at Fram, is simple professional jelousy. Drmies couldn't get away with what Fram does, no way, his motives are just too obvious, his attempts to mask them too inelegant. But he wants to.

That is the reason Drmies wrote "I always respected you as an editor and administrator." about Fram. Drmies' chimp brain will have made him write that just as a set up to what followed, the usual sad attempt to look like a person being harshly betrayed by someone he should consider a colleague. His subconscious had him write it because he is jealous.

Cops enjoy taking down bad guys, sure, but you pay them and make them operate under rules and regulations so the citizenry are reassured they are not going to be arrested and charged simply because the cop is on the jazz.

All of this is why Drmies gets scary phonecalls, while Fram gets cash in the post from anonymous donors.

This has been a public information message of HTD Inc.

Need extra cash? Enjoy taking down bad guys? Then why not give us a call.....

Our number is 555 HAVE A NICE DAY DRMIES

[Dysklyver]

I noticed earlier today the block of User:Nevergonnagiveyouup69 by User:Drmies as a "Username violation, hard block" one minute after creation of the account, and without any edits. I feel that this username, while it can be read in ways indicating disruption, isn't unambiguously so, and could just as easily be the name of an innocent, well-meaning editor. Drmies disagrees, stating "The combination of rickrolling and 69 (sex position) should be enough". Some clarification would be nice whether such a name really warrants immediate hardblocking without warnings or explanation towards the editor, or whether such blocking is WP:BITEy. Fram (talk) 19:32, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&oldid=871015797#When_is_a_name_problematic_enough_to_be_immediately_hardblocked?

When it suits them, call it out. Drmies has been doing this and worse for years along with the rest of them and no one cared.

The question at [1] seems like a polemic; should it be struck? Courtesy ping @Fram and Drmies:. power~enwiki (π, ν) 06:09, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

If you want to let a candidate for ArbCom get away with making up stuff to defend his sock account, then by all means remove or strike through my follow up question. Notrmal practice would be that Drmies would withdraw his candidacy because he lied about his sock account (which he used very often for regular and contentious editing, not simply for his work with students), but I don't expect normal behaviour on enwiki anyway. Fram (talk) 07:23, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

No, normal practice, like not just Wikipedia practice but also human practice, would suggest that you ask me privately first if you're worried about an imposter. Power~enwiki, I don't care if the question is struck: it's too late. Oh, Fram, you had a follow-up? Wonderful. Drmies (talk) 16:15, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

If it was an imposter, they needed blocking, and no need to ask that privately. If it wasn't an imposter, then you did a terrible job of covering up yur tracks and keeping the two accounts separate, and my asking in public was just the result of your poor attempt at secrecy. If you create articles with the Drmies account and then edit them with the secret account, then you shouldn't blame it on others that the link is made. Fram (talk) 20:37, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Fram, the amount of bad faith you display is mindboggling. I always respected you as an editor and administrator. That you'd pick these pages, and AN, to pick a fight with someone you don't like is pretty shitty. Anyway, whatever you're doing here is working: look who created this--another banned editor who keeps track of me. Drmies (talk) 01:25, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

You mean the bad faith you showed to that user because you could only read his username in a negative way and could wait for even a single edit before blocking? Why is it shitty to point out at an ArbCom election that someone isn't really fit for that position? The only thing I regret isn't looking at your candidacy earlier, but then again both the sock edit in reply to an edit by me, and the poor blocking only happened now, so I could not have brought it up earlier. Feel free to suggest better locations for e.g. the discussion of a poor username block after the blocking admin has indicated they won't change their position. Fram (talk) 05:29, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2018/Coordination#Fram's_question_to_Drmies

Now Drmies is entrenched, and Fram has won.