"Fram Gate" in Arbcom

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JuiceBeetle
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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by JuiceBeetle » Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:51 am

Guido den Broeder wrote:Hm, this doesn't look like due process, for instance.

SPI without evidence. Outcome: VERY LIKELY :lol:
Tony is checkuser, so he probably ran a check. Is this outcome based on "behaviour" or IP?
Let's see the behaviour: both have a significant interest in Anastasia Bezrukova, Thylane Blondeau, Kristina Pimenova, and her father Ruslan Pimenov.
Well, that can happen to anyone.
I wonder if Tony ran a checkuser. Almond Plate has the same ISP in the Netherlands, as Guido used? I guess he wouldn't say "Very likely" for a non-Dutch IP.

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by JuiceBeetle » Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:13 am

Guido den Broeder wrote:a block of Incnis Mrsi

Vermont about Incnis Mrsi wrote:Your behavior is extremely hostile and anything but respectful. If you have an issue with this request, make it clear without insulting the requesting contributor. Vermont (talk) 12:36, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

In response to block range criticism.
"Vilification": how to prepare for a block. Warning: Praxidicae.

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by Guido den Broeder » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:02 am

Their target was Incnis Mrsi and Almond Plate was collateral damage. Two editors down for the price of one. Because of Fram Gate, the slightest suggestion of incivility is now enough to remove long-time productive users.

Gaslighted wrote:
Guido den Broeder wrote:Hm, this doesn't look like due process, for instance.

SPI without evidence. Outcome: VERY LIKELY :lol:
Tony is checkuser, so he probably ran a check. Is this outcome based on "behaviour" or IP?
Let's see the behaviour: both have a significant interest in Anastasia Bezrukova, Thylane Blondeau, Kristina Pimenova, and her father Ruslan Pimenov.
Well, that can happen to anyone.

You get to one of these topics, you get them all. Almond Plate was interested in football, I guess, and then noted the vandalism which is rampant on these pages. Without these edits they would have found a different banned user elsewhere, you really can't miss.

I wonder if Tony ran a checkuser. Almond Plate has the same ISP in the Netherlands, as Guido used? I guess he wouldn't say "Very likely" for a non-Dutch IP.

Tony only points to his flawed edit comparison, so clearly not. They never do. At some point in the past they decided that because I am a chessplayer, I am capable of creating countless IPs in the UK, so why bother. Answering his own request, investigating and closing, all in three minutes flat behind the community's back.

Comparing their activity to mine on MEpedia is probably enough to demonstrate that I was far from Wikipedia. I was never much interested in fighting vandalism or solving user quarrels anyway.

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by Graaf Statler » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:10 am

Guido wrote:At some point in the past they decided that because I am a chessplayer, I am capable of creating countless IPs in the UK, so why bother.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ze zijn werkelijk imbeciel, Guido. Werkelijk.

Guido wrote:I was never much interested in fighting vandalism or solving user quarrels anyway
.

Neither am I. I like harmony and that's the reason why I am as fake side admin and very tolerant and very strict and tuff.
Play the ball, not the person. Hands off of other guests and who thinks it's here a nice troll place is simple on the wrong adres.

Ask Bart legal, and see what happens with Timmy boy if he still thinks this is his personal kindergarten.
Dan gaat hij er namelijk met een Euro-pisboog uit. :mrgreen:

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by CrowsNest » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:14 pm

Fram still sitting his own grave. Every chance SilkTork gives for him to say the right thing, he just keeps putting his foot in it, defaulting to his favourite canards.

I'm a little amused that all those screechers who insist process is paramount and screw any absurd outcomes that might result, have not even noticed that SilkTork is basically operating as a free agent right now. He has openly admitted that he isn't keeping up with the ArbCom mailing list, so what we could potentially be seeing here, is two parallel processes for reaching a resolution, one being worked out with Fram and his court appointed psychotherapist trying to nail down precisely why he has zero empathy, and another being worked out in secret between the Cabal in their Star Chamber. Or worse, all the other Arbs might just be sitting in silence, their thumbs up their asses, watching and waiting to see the outcome of SilkTork's examination of the alien subject, seeing if he can really detect signs of a higher intelligence, before they vote on whether to set it free or put it down.

I'm also quite surprised the fact we have now passed the point where Fram is actually one quarter of the way through his ban, that this decision as it stands, as an undefeatable conclusion, says was unjustified, and nobody has self-immolated with outrage. Fram surely would have, if SilkTork wasn't distracting him with difficult questions, like are you a rational human being?

Since everyone seems fine with unusualness in this case, I have a suggestion. Unban Fram now, return him to the en.wiki fold as a standard editor, and let the discussion over what to do about his Admin rights conclude whenever it will conclude. Seems like the fair and decent thing to do, no?

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by Graaf Statler » Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:13 pm

Privacy violation Vig wrote:If Fram has to go to RfA, it's going to be a circus.
"Fuck the WMF!" could be the rallying cry.

Fuck you all is my answer to all of you, Eurocrap&co, bunch of free loaders what you are!

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by ToneRat » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:30 am

Guido den Broeder wrote:Their target was Incnis Mrsi and Almond Plate was collateral damage. Two editors down for the price of one. Because of Fram Gate, the slightest suggestion of incivility is now enough to remove long-time productive users.

Gaslighted wrote:
Guido den Broeder wrote:Hm, this doesn't look like due process, for instance.

SPI without evidence. Outcome: VERY LIKELY :lol:
Tony is checkuser, so he probably ran a check. Is this outcome based on "behaviour" or IP?
Let's see the behaviour: both have a significant interest in Anastasia Bezrukova, Thylane Blondeau, Kristina Pimenova, and her father Ruslan Pimenov.
Well, that can happen to anyone.

You get to one of these topics, you get them all. Almond Plate was interested in football, I guess, and then noted the vandalism which is rampant on these pages. Without these edits they would have found a different banned user elsewhere, you really can't miss.

I wonder if Tony ran a checkuser. Almond Plate has the same ISP in the Netherlands, as Guido used? I guess he wouldn't say "Very likely" for a non-Dutch IP.

Tony only points to his flawed edit comparison, so clearly not. They never do. At some point in the past they decided that because I am a chessplayer, I am capable of creating countless IPs in the UK, so why bother. Answering his own request, investigating and closing, all in three minutes flat behind the community's back.

Comparing their activity to mine on MEpedia is probably enough to demonstrate that I was far from Wikipedia. I was never much interested in fighting vandalism or solving user quarrels anyway.


You really going to claim that wasn't you Guido? :lol:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =782917821
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?ti ... =906735685

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by CrowsNest » Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:41 am

Honestly, what is the point of this nonsense?
Fram, I am pushing the limits of what I can reveal about the document. I am concerned that any details I mention may lead you or any others to speculate on who filed the report, so I am not providing anything identifiable. Please do not speculate on who filed any report. Just don't do it, or this conversation will have to stop immediately. In order to be clear, the person you name is not the person who filed this report. But I will not be making any more such denials. Any further speculation will promptly end this discussion. SilkTork (talk) 10:14, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
I am not a legal expert. I am frustrated we have been given a document and then told it is private and confidential, but we have to use it to make findings and discuss and defend these findings. I do not want to stray into fouling foul of either my moral or legal responsibilities, but at the same time I want to make this as fair as possible for you. So, please, no more speculation. SilkTork (talk) 11:18, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
You can't stop Fram being Fram. Trying to make this all be about who has complained rather than what they complaints were, has been his strategy from literally day one.

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by CrowsNest » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:16 pm

:ugeek:
Your reinsertion of that section with only a minimal change is vandalism. Please don't do this again. Fram (talk) 11:16, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
This is what I love about Fram. Even when he's trying real hard to look and sound like a real boy, as we are now being told was his mindset during this period, by everyone from NewYorkBrad to Fram himself, the core programming of the asshole robot enforcer is always right there, just under the surface. Operating to his own rules, the basic codas of good Wikipedia Administration like adherence to WP:NOTVAND are clearly not included, presumably to save disk space.

No surprise this was one tiny part of a dispute Fram failed to resolve. As has been seen in similar cases, such as Elisa, his presence merely inflamed tensions and erected barriers.

When asked by a Builder to reflect on his role as a Dispute Resolution Bot in this incident, the defective Frambot of course could not compute the question, defaulting instead to his Self Defense Module, producing the sort of undesirable outputs already seen by the Builders in their previous tests.

No wonder Brad is panicking. NO MORE TESTS!

I agree. The results are conclusive.

Just pull the plug already. Not even a reset can fix this fucker, it's a firmware problem.

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by CrowsNest » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:45 pm

We are starting to see the effects of the community choosing to withhold its trust in ArbCom based on nothing but externally agitated rumour and innuendo.

With every attempt by Arbs to better communicate things which really should never have been for wider consumption, they are merely adding to the problems they already had. Arbs are now having to spend half their time correcting previous statements which were taken the wrong way.

The Foundation promised complainents they would not be put in the firing line. And yet we are still seeing people's names being offered up for harassment, as a direct result of the mistrust that exists between the proles and their own elected representatives.

How many times, how many different ways, do certain things need to be said, before they accept it? Well, with the hate site in full conspiracy theory mode, with the deep cross pollination between the proles and the hate site, it seems it is never enough.

If the community doesn't trust an elected committee to make judgements and decisions on its behalf, then the solution is obvious. Get rid of it. But let's be clear, if the community can't handle the role that ArbCom exists to fulfil, there will be consequences.

The hate site is offering you false hope. They're not trying to set you free, they want to replace your elected representatives with their picks, for their own aims. You remember their tactics. You know how close they came to installing an ArbCom member, without any of you realising.

Do you even know who these people are? Take a look. Not many of those posters are open about their Wikipedia identities. Others are clearly running game, saying things over there that don't match their intent on en.wiki.

By the time you wake up, it's probably going to be too late. Check your history books, if you even have any. It's called insurrection.

I mean, it makes no odds to me, but as a matter of principle, I would rather the demise of Wikipedia be achieved through your own conscious acts.

HTD.

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