"Fram Gate" in Arbcom

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CrowsNest
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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by CrowsNest » Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:06 pm

(edit summary)
An aside: sectioned editing on case talk pages causes much more problems than it actually solves. Please abandon it in the future.
Well, he said please, and didn't just ignore it because he doesn't like it.

IMPROVEMENT!

Quick, give him back his Admin tools, before he regresses to May 2019 Fram.

Self-governance. Easy peasy!

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Guido den Broeder
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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by Guido den Broeder » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:23 pm

Fram wrote:An aside: sectioned editing on case talk pages causes much more problems than it actually solves. Please abandon it in the future.

Funny then how he was so very much OK with sectioning my comments out of the discussion of his ban proposal for me.

No, he is just saying this to sound important.

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Graaf Statler
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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by Graaf Statler » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:44 pm

What for me a complete mystery is why he doesn't say sorry Guido, I was wrong. Fram is from Holland/Belgium and does dammed well what is permitted or not here and you did really nothing what is prohibited. Nothing! I am pretty sure he is reading here and I have explained with sources, facts his allegations were absurd. Why not just saying sorry Guido? Sorry I was wrong?

It's all gaslighting and lies, Guido. Lying with the evidences in front of you. Lies based on really nothing. Fram is a gaslighter, just like Timmy's hero Vig.

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by Guido den Broeder » Thu Sep 19, 2019 9:56 pm

Probably because he isn't sorry at all, he enjoyed harassing me and would do it again. And because it hasn't come up in his ArbCom case, so there was nothing to gain for him by playing to be sorry.

He's already in the thick of it again, with his new hobby attacking Wikidata and trying to delete an article about a young girl.

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by Graaf Statler » Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:03 pm

Of course he doesn't want to say sorry. Because he knows himself dammed well his allegations are absurd. They where indeed only to harass you.
The article of that young girl has nobility, I simple don't get the point he wants to make other than to bully you.

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by Kumioko » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:09 am

First off the Arbcom never should have accepted the case. They should have told the WMF to go fix their own mess.

Having said that, I am really surprised to see them unban Fram. It really seemed like the Arbcom was being forced into a position to defend the T&S's position but now that they didn't, it may cause some additional strain/bad blood between the Arbcom and the T&S section.

This case will probably also be the last time the T&S section uses a limited scope/duration ban. I'm betting the next time they stick to the full global ban.

Again though, Fram was arrogant before so I can only imagine how much of a jerk he is going to be now that everyone fought to get him unbanned and the big drama it caused.
#BbbGate

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Re: Vigilant's Obsessive Disorder

Post by Kumioko » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:16 pm

Anyone wrote:Let's take a look at some more disturbing behavior.

Molly -- the Magnificent Madame Warfare -- has just dumped over 7000 words right here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GorillaWarfare/Fram_admin_status_notes

Yes, that nonsense weighs in at over 7000 words. And all because a runty little volunteer moderator got blocked. It's such a terrible waste of time.

I own and operate three companies. If staff fuck up, they get zapped. The whole process takes about five minutes.

Some of you guys might be managers. If your staff fuck up, you kick them out. The process might take a day or so.

But on Wikipedia ..... you've got this sad little jerk [Fram] who's only a volunteer. He isn't even salaried. And yet .... 7000 words.

I have noticed that when Molly stays concise she sounds smart. The longer her posts get, the more she sounds like an idiot.
#BbbGate

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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by JuiceBeetle » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:01 pm


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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by CrowsNest » Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:50 pm

Not the most compelling of judgements.

They should have spent more time before the case really thinking of all the ways this could go badly.

Rejecting it was never an option, they couldn't have got away with that, the angry mob would not have stood for it.

Although to be fair, even I am surprised that the publicly submitted evidence didn't even come close to matching the depth and breadth of the private dossier, which is what has really screwed them.

They said it a million times, the dossier is not dodgy, it was a serious piece of work done by people who knew exactly what they were doing. And it said ban. No way to argue that was incorrect, except this rather embarrassing admission by the village elders that yes, the community doesn't really view harassment as harassment, and if the Foundation could find a way to be cool with that, they would be really doing them a solid.

Of course, many in the community do know what harassment is, and that is what got this Foundation process rolling.

In hindsight, it is obvious why people probably didn't put much effort into submitting public evidence - for some that would have been the third or even fourth time they've had to make the case Fram is unfit to serve, and with no guarantee it was going to be taken seriously this time. Arguably merely dresysoppong, in sure knowledge there's a good chance the horrible community will just give it right back to him, is a not very serious response from the people who are supposedly there to provide leadership and guidance and above all, uphold policy.

And although ArbCom said they would protect people's privacy, between their history of leaks, and with Wikipedia Administrators openly calling for leaks in the external harassment site (which should have led to a ban), which was already busy ripping to pieces people based on mere supposition, with Fram's enthusiastic help, I can see why people would be reluctant to take the risk.

There is a delicious irony here. The Foundation took action because they felt ArbCom and the community had already shown itself incapable. They screamed back that they were All Growed Up and They're Not Their Real Daddy Anyway, so the Foundation unwisely let them review their decision. And yet here we are with a pretty weak case, where they can only really partly blame the Foundation, the primary reason it is so unconvincing, is that ArbCom and the community really just can't (and in many cases won't) deal with these highly valued but seriously problematic users properly.

I mean, the clue is right there. If you have to announce a review into how the community handles harassment and private evidence as part of the outcome of a case which supposedly reviewed a charge of harassment based on private evidence, it is obvious someone put the cart before the horse and came up with a sheep.

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Guido den Broeder
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Re: "Fram Gate" in Arbcom

Post by Guido den Broeder » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:53 pm

Not a chance in hell that I would ever put my case before ArbCom or the community, and I'm sure others feel the same.

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